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Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

evergreen.segment.com

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Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#161

Post by aikah »

pjmlp wrote: post #147
aikah wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web components are not supported in many popular browsers. Until they are widely supported they are not a thing. And no, Polymer and co are not polyfills for them, they are their own incompatible frameworks. I agree in principle but it's up to browser vendors to implement specs, and it is always the same offender that is dragging his feet.

Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, which they are already developing. On mobile Web 100% of the browsers support Web Components. https://www.webcomponents.org/ So what are the many popular browsers you refer to? As anything else is meaningless.

> Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements,

Your statement makes no sense whatsoever, they are "only missing" 2 of the most fundamental features of web components? that would actually help getting rid of all these incompatible UI toolkits? I don't call that supporting Web Components at all if you can't write custom elements natively. You obviously do not understand how the lack of support for custom element and shadow DOM affects Web Components adoption.

Not supporting 2/3 of a spec is not being compliant with that spec, obviously.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#162

Post by ergo14 »

dmortin wrote: post #30
ianhawes wrote: post #10

This list was posted a few weeks ago, but here is a fairly definitive list of similar UI frameworks: https://element.eleme.io/ https://ant.design/ https://quasar-framework.org/ https://at-ui.github.io/at-ui/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/fabric https://vmware.github.io/clarity/ http://appnexus.github.io/lucid/ https://ng-lightning.github.io/ng-lightning/ https://blueprintjs.com/ http://www.jetbrains.org/ring-…

The question is: how many of these will be maintained several years later? Can you build a long term project on these? Or the expectation is that one has to make a new UI anyway every several years to keep up with the changing fashion, so rewrites are inevitable?

I think rewriting UI systems every few years and reimplementing in various JS frameworks that come and go is a serious waste of manpower. I'd so wish people would embrace web components properly once and for all, with LitElement, Svelte or Stencil. This way we won't have to live with another framework-bootstrap clone again and again and everyone can contribute to one solution that will work with all JS frameworks.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#163

Post by codingdave »

pjmlp wrote: post #141
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if it works now, it'll work ten years down the line as long as they're not doing anything nonstandard. There's a big fear that projects that become unmaintained suddenly stop working; this isn't correct. Besides, all webapps are rebuilt in a 3-5 year cycle anyway so it really doesn't matter.

Do you feel like rewriting a bunch of webapps written in Perl/modapache around early 2000? I know of at least one company with such a stack. Just like I know others with Web Forms, Stucts, SEAM, JSP, Zope and many other stacks in production. Not everyone re-writes their webapps, specially in companies where software is a cost center and totally unrelated to their main business.

Sure, I'd be happy to. Converting apps from an old platform to a newer platform is reliable work, and I've done my share of it over my career. It often is structured as temporary projects, so I've had the opportunity to travel to short-term gigs in new cities while I build out platform conversion plans.

Sure, not everyone re-writes old apps. But enough companies do it to make it a decent professional specialty to cultivate. And it doesn't hurt knowing both the modern stacks and multiple generations of legacy stacks when working with large organizations. Sign me up.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#164

Post by jazoom »

jameslk wrote: post #80
dmortin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is: how many of these will be maintained several years later? Can you build a long term project on these? Or the expectation is that one has to make a new UI anyway every several years to keep up with the changing fashion, so rewrites are inevitable?

They're open source right? Would you expect to build your own design language, responsive/accessible components, documentation and maintain it any better than an open source solution?

That's a false dichotomy. The third option is the obvious one: use a framework that will be well-maintained.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#165

Post by ergo14 »

aikah wrote: post #161
pjmlp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, which they are already developing. On mobile Web 100% of the browsers support Web Components. https://www.webcomponents.org/ So what are the many popular browsers you refer to? As anything else is meaningless.

> Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, Your statement makes no sense whatsoever, they are "only missing" 2 of the most fundamental features of web components? that would actually help getting rid of all these incompatible UI toolkits? I don't call that supporting Web Components at all if you can't write custom elements natively. You obviously do not understand how the lack of support for…

Edge is implementing (updated the roadmap), Firefox ships enabled WC's in closest release (it is already in the beta) I think Firefox 63 will ship in a week?.

That leaves only IE11/Edge with polyfills.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#166

Post by franciscop »

anonytrary wrote: post #61
yuchi wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I can understand your skepticism on the first one, the second package is actually very useful. It doesn't just concatenate strings filtering out falsy values, it supports the whole old AngularJS class format. You can, for example, pass an object {string:booleanish} and it will add only the keys whose values are truthy. Pretty neat, actually.

> You can, for example, pass an object {string:booleanish} and it will add only the keys whose values are truthy. Why is this something you can't do on your own in a few lines of code? const classNames = (o, c=[]) => { for (let k in o) if (o[k]) c.push(k) // booleanish return c.join(" ") } This is not cool at all! Why import a trivial function over NPM to do this for you? Better to lower your dependency count and hav…

I am starting to follow Sindre's philosophy [1] more and more. I published this morning `fch` [2], a 10-15 LoC library (note: undocumented for now). I will test it well and make sure it works everywhere. In exchange, I removed basically the same code from 3 projects (so far), some of them with subtle bugs.

The cost of using it is the same as locally, and creation cost is lower per-project if you let npm manage your own libs. Plus, bug fixes are automatically propagated.

[1] https://github.com/sindresorhus/ama/issues/10#issuecomment-1...

[2] https://github.com/franciscop/fetch

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#167

Post by ergo14 »

aikah wrote: post #128
ernsheong wrote: post #63

I wish people would stop making UI frameworks in , and instead make it web components based with vanilla JS/very light lib dependency, so that everyone can enjoy the benefit. React is becoming a bubble of its own, and it's exclusive.

Web components are not supported in many popular browsers. Until they are widely supported they are not a thing. And no, Polymer and co are not polyfills for them, they are their own incompatible frameworks. I agree in principle but it's up to browser vendors to implement specs, and it is always the same offender that is dragging his feet.

Yup, Polymer is "big" dependency, but with things like svelte, litelement or stencil you can build web components which have little overhead.

Also polyfills are separate thing from polymer - they are reused by ALL other frameworks including vuejs for example, so I'm not sure what you meant by that comment.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#168

Post by andrewingram »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #159
andrewingram wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because the people making them are using React, and first and foremost they're making it for themselves.

That was my guess, but the_duke's comment makes me think there is more to it. I'll have to look at the code to see if the React components do anything more than apply HTML templates with associated CSS styles.

Some of them require run-time JavaScript, like the popovers and select boxes. And largely the value here is in the comprehensive component API, rather than just the HTML/CSS it spits out.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#170

Post by pjmlp »

aikah wrote: post #161
pjmlp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, which they are already developing. On mobile Web 100% of the browsers support Web Components. https://www.webcomponents.org/ So what are the many popular browsers you refer to? As anything else is meaningless.

> Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, Your statement makes no sense whatsoever, they are "only missing" 2 of the most fundamental features of web components? that would actually help getting rid of all these incompatible UI toolkits? I don't call that supporting Web Components at all if you can't write custom elements natively. You obviously do not understand how the lack of support for…

Apparently you haven't read my comment as you missed "which they are already developing." and "100% support on mobile Web" part.

Plus there are polyfills available for the meantime.

So what other browsers are many popular?

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