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Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#51

Post by dragonwriter »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #48
threeseed wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM/Honda are partnering with Cruise. Fiat are partnering with Waymo. Everyone is partnering with someone or organising supply deals. And everyone other than Tesla uses LIDAR. Also I never said these cars were being sold today.

> Also I never said these cars were being sold today. Then you're moving the goal posts. Tesla is selling cars today to people that they are (EDIT) targeting support of full autonomy, or have their hardware swapped to do so. Everything else is an experiment in a lab or on a track.

> Tesla is selling cars today to people that will eventually support full autonomy, or have their hardware swapped to do so.

Well, Tesla claims that. It's quite possible that neither will happen.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#52

Post by manicdee »

threeseed wrote: post #45
jaimex2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever wondered why in millions of years nature didnt evolve a LIDAR equivalent and most species use passive vision? I think Tesla is bang on the money going only with cameras. They are already better than the human eye.

Eagles can see 4-8x further than humans can and many varieties of birds can see in additional spectrums to ours. And of course SONAR exists in whales, dolphins etc which is a corollary.

And yet here we are with limited spectrum stereo vision, at the top of the evolutionary ladder.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#53

Post by manicdee »

mdorazio wrote: post #46
jaimex2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever wondered why in millions of years nature didnt evolve a LIDAR equivalent and most species use passive vision? I think Tesla is bang on the money going only with cameras. They are already better than the human eye.

Ever wondered why with millions of years of evolution, human drivers with depth perception-enabled HDR cameras in their heads still get into accidents all the time? If that's your bar for "good enough" then we're in big trouble with autonomous vehicles.

You need to look at why humans have accidents then.

Hint: it’s not due to the sensor package being used.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#54

Post by AnthonyMouse »

threeseed wrote: post #45
jaimex2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever wondered why in millions of years nature didnt evolve a LIDAR equivalent and most species use passive vision? I think Tesla is bang on the money going only with cameras. They are already better than the human eye.

Eagles can see 4-8x further than humans can and many varieties of birds can see in additional spectrums to ours. And of course SONAR exists in whales, dolphins etc which is a corollary.

> Eagles can see 4-8x further than humans can and many varieties of birds can see in additional spectrums to ours.

So can digital cameras.

> And of course SONAR exists in whales, dolphins etc which is a corollary.

The reason for (active) SONAR is the lack of ambient sound. An alternative for a car would be headlights. Or passive infrared cameras.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#55

Post by AnthonyMouse »

supergirl wrote: post #49
jaimex2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever wondered why in millions of years nature didnt evolve a LIDAR equivalent and most species use passive vision? I think Tesla is bang on the money going only with cameras. They are already better than the human eye.

humans also didn't evolve wheels and the ability to run at 200 km / h.

No, but cheetahs did at the speeds vehicles would be operating in autonomous mode, and various birds fly even faster.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#56

Post by mikestew »

jaimex2 wrote: post #42
xvector wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not get why your comment is so controversial - you are absolutely right. Conventional cameras alone are not trustworthy for self-driving, and this is part of the reason every respectable company venturing into self-driving is incorporation technologies like LIDAR. I find it sketchy that Tesla markets "future full-self-driving" when they are unlikely to have the hardware to make that a safe experience.

Ever wondered why in millions of years nature didnt evolve a LIDAR equivalent and most species use passive vision? I think Tesla is bang on the money going only with cameras. They are already better than the human eye.

Ever wondered why in millions of years nature didnt evolve a LIDAR equivalent and most species use passive vision?

Because it compensated for poor sensor hardware with a processing unit and software that we have thus far been unable to even come close to replicating? Granted, solve that, and we’re just a few years away!

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#57

Post by threeseed »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #48
threeseed wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM/Honda are partnering with Cruise. Fiat are partnering with Waymo. Everyone is partnering with someone or organising supply deals. And everyone other than Tesla uses LIDAR. Also I never said these cars were being sold today.

> Also I never said these cars were being sold today. Then you're moving the goal posts. Tesla is selling cars today to people that they are (EDIT) targeting support of full autonomy, or have their hardware swapped to do so. Everything else is an experiment in a lab or on a track.

Some of us think that Tesla's technology is an experiment.

An incredibly dangerous one.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#58

Post by toomuchtodo »

threeseed wrote: post #57
toomuchtodo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I never said these cars were being sold today. Then you're moving the goal posts. Tesla is selling cars today to people that they are (EDIT) targeting support of full autonomy, or have their hardware swapped to do so. Everything else is an experiment in a lab or on a track.

Some of us think that Tesla's technology is an experiment. An incredibly dangerous one.

Federal regulators do not agree with your assessment.

https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/automobiles/315133...

> Federal regulators "did not identify any defects" in Tesla's autopilot feature after a lengthy investigation of the technology, officials announced Thursday.

> A six-month investigation failed to uncover any flaws with the autopilot's emergency breaking technology and other advanced features linked to a deadly accident last year, according to a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) report released Thursday.

> "NHTSA’s examination did not identify any defects in design or performance of the AEB or Autopilot systems of the subject vehicles nor any incidents in which the systems did not perform as designed," the NHTSA report said.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#59

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st »

Someone wrote: post #30

”When you increase the number of parameters (weights) in an NN by a factor of 5 you don’t just get 5 times the capacity and need 5 times as much training data. In terms of expressive capacity increase it’s more akin to a number with 5 times as many digits. So if V8’s expressive capacity was 10, V9’s capacity is more like 100,000.” I find it very, very hard to believe that. I know ‘expressive power’ is a fairly vague…

Here is a highly specific definition of "expressive power" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VC_dimension

To me the statement doesn't seem that unreasonable

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#60

Post by vkoskiv »

threeseed wrote: post #34

Still completely reckless in my opinion to deploy any autonomous system without LIDAR or some other long range, night time capable sensor. Even if it's not reckless their competitors will offer low light and night time autonomous driving which will be a major advantage.

Teslas have a long-range radar on the front.
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