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How I Snuck Into The Ivy League. And You Can Too.

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Re: How I Snuck Into The Ivy League. And You Can Too.

#81

Post by Nrsolis »

linhir wrote: post #79
Nrsolis wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, you don't know what you're talking about. Signaling is bullshit. You might as well try and turn one of those acceptance letters into a job offer. See how that works out for you. The reason elite colleges are elite is because they are filled with people deemed "the elite." Got that? A big part of the experience at ANY undergraduate school is WHO you happen to be learning WITH not just who you are learnin…

I don't really see how signally is bullshit from the examples you've given. Harvard College does make a a decision to cultivate a class composed of the best students, that's sort of the entire point. Acceptance to Harvard College ends up being a signal for those things it selects for, not necessarily those things one actually learns. The gateway is admissions, not what Harvard actually imparts. Since the admissions s…

So why bother with the education part at all then? Why not just run the admissions process and announce the winners of the beauty contest?

BTW, which "first" 60 years are you talking about? Harvard's admission process wasn't /really/ competitive until the 50's.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/10/051010crat_atlar...

Re: How I Snuck Into The Ivy League. And You Can Too.

#82

Post by linhir »

Nrsolis wrote: post #81
linhir wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see how signally is bullshit from the examples you've given. Harvard College does make a a decision to cultivate a class composed of the best students, that's sort of the entire point. Acceptance to Harvard College ends up being a signal for those things it selects for, not necessarily those things one actually learns. The gateway is admissions, not what Harvard actually imparts. Since the admissions s…

So why bother with the education part at all then? Why not just run the admissions process and announce the winners of the beauty contest? BTW, which "first" 60 years are you talking about? Harvard's admission process wasn't /really/ competitive until the 50's. http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/10/051010crat_atlar...

Well, the real answer is that you learn roughly the same quality of things no matter what college you go to, not that you don't learn anything anywhere, just that Harvard College's distinguishing factor is not its education vs. UMass-Amhert, it is the admission process itself.

Neither of our statements re:admission is exactly correct, but what I meant is that admissions wasn't anywhere near being fair until at least the early 1960s (and that's being generous to Harvard), so the 60 years I was referring to was from 1900-1960. Buuuut, that's not quite right because when Eliot was President things were a little more competitive, but whatever.

Re: How I Snuck Into The Ivy League. And You Can Too.

#83

Post by Nrsolis »

linhir wrote: post #82
Nrsolis wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why bother with the education part at all then? Why not just run the admissions process and announce the winners of the beauty contest? BTW, which "first" 60 years are you talking about? Harvard's admission process wasn't /really/ competitive until the 50's. http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/10/051010crat_atlar...

Well, the real answer is that you learn roughly the same quality of things no matter what college you go to, not that you don't learn anything anywhere, just that Harvard College's distinguishing factor is not its education vs. UMass-Amhert, it is the admission process itself. Neither of our statements re:admission is exactly correct, but what I meant is that admissions wasn't anywhere near being fair until at least…

SO...why on earth do you think that it's lying to say you have a degree from Columbia U if it's "only" from the General Studies program.

Did you know that Columbia will hand you a masters degree in Electrical Engineering or Chemical Engineering even if you've never set foot in New York?

http://www.cvn.columbia.edu/

Are those guys (those who earned their degree over the Internet) fakers too?

Re: How I Snuck Into The Ivy League. And You Can Too.

#84

Post by donnybrook »

hristov wrote: post #66
dpritchett wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see the distinction. The Penn LPS FAQ ( http://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/faq/general ) suggests that their night school students get the same degree and in some cases study with the same professors as the day students. Is there a reason to suspect the quality of the education would be dramatically different?

The distinction is much stronger in Columbia. There you are part of an entirely different school (School of Graduate Studies), which shows up on your diploma and transcripts and which you are supposed to put on your resume. While you may take the same classes and get a degree that sounds the same as the ordinary undergrad schools (Columbia College and Barnard College) you have technically got that degree from a diffe…

When I went to Columbia College, the GS students tended to be the best students. They were more prepared, more motivated, and had much more poise. If anything the GS degree would look better to me.

I know the snob factor goes down, but the GS degree should mean something to people who care more about education than branding or signaling.

Re: How I Snuck Into The Ivy League. And You Can Too.

#85

Post by jonhendry »

brianbreslin wrote: post #40
jim_dot wrote: post #39

Could somebody help me out here - I was under the impression (and perhaps this is just the case for Canadian schools?) that you need a student number to register for courses. If you're not admitted to the school, how can you get a student number to register for courses?

Most us schools offer student id numbers to non degree seeking students. They are charging/filtering mostly for the prestige of their degree.

They generally don't let people audit courses (ie, non-credit) for free. Maybe if you're an employee of the institution, or have a connection, but if you go through the registration process you'll have to pay.

I audited a course at Harvard Extension, and the professor said she wouldn't grade the work of auditing students. You could do the assignments, and attend the lectures, but you'd get no feedback.

Re: How I Snuck Into The Ivy League. And You Can Too.

#86

Post by rdl »

milkshakes wrote: post #10

Or you could just start "dropping in" on classes.. That's the first thing that came to mind when I read the title.

I did this for 3 semesters after running out of money (at MIT, undergrad) and thus being unable to afford tuition. It was a little easier since I was in the system -- I could register, take classes, and then they would deregister me retroactively each semester. I got to take classes, sit exams, etc., just didn't end up with credit.

I actually learned more in classes where I knew I wouldn't successfully remain registered than before, since the only reason was to learn.

If the school itself hadn't screwed me over so much on financial aid/loans (0, since my parents wouldn't pay any of the "expected parental contribution"), I would feel bad for imposing marginal costs.

Re: How I Snuck Into The Ivy League. And You Can Too.

#87

Post by Goladus »

Honestly the question isn't really is a Columbia GS degree valuable or prestiguous, but whether going to Columbia school of GS is really a better option than SUNY Geneseo.

Geneseo is a teaching-oriented undergraduate college and one of the best schools in the SUNY system. If you're the sort of person who is going to bust their ass to get into Columbia as an undergrad, you probably could have just busted your ass at Geneseo and then gone to the grad school of your choice, which is arguably more important (unless you are a programmer).

Re: How I Snuck Into The Ivy League. And You Can Too.

#89

Post by [deleted] »

strebler wrote: post #75
idm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is different at every school, and I've never heard of the system you described. The two grad schools I've gotten a 'behind-the-scenes' look at work like this: - a team of 3 will review applications - the applications are split into 3 piles, one pile each - they rank their pile in order - the group reconvenes, and they make an argument for their favorites The one prejudice I've heard of involves the reputation of…

Of course, he's out of California and you're in Canada where the admissions process is different (closer to the UK system). This is the sort of thing he's talking about: http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/10/12/24103/ "African-American applicants with SAT scores of 1150 had the same chances of being accepted as white applicants with 1460s and Asian applicants with perfect 1600s" I'm not sure if that necessarily tr…

[deleted]

Re: How I Snuck Into The Ivy League. And You Can Too.

#90

Post by brianbreslin »

jonhendry wrote: post #85
brianbreslin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most us schools offer student id numbers to non degree seeking students. They are charging/filtering mostly for the prestige of their degree.

They generally don't let people audit courses (ie, non-credit) for free. Maybe if you're an employee of the institution, or have a connection, but if you go through the registration process you'll have to pay. I audited a course at Harvard Extension, and the professor said she wouldn't grade the work of auditing students. You could do the assignments, and attend the lectures, but you'd get no feedback.

hmmm that makes sense, why would she want to do work for free? she is paid to teach paying students and help them improve. my parents are both college professors, and they get paid for online courses based on the # of enrolled students i think.
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