Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier • Hacker News Board

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#91

Post by Jaruzel » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

pdog wrote: post #63

decasia wrote: post #7

The thing I keep thinking is that I want to have social software built on a co-operative model (like a food co-op): you all pay some nominal membership fee (could you fund servers and developers on $5/year/user?), and the software would then be developed to fit the agreed-upon needs of the community, without dark patterns or behavior modification projects, openly, and with some kind of community governance (which nee…

Why charge users at all? Social software could be funded entirely by voluntary donations or a small foundation.

Based on how often Wikipedia runs banners asking for donations, I'm not sure the 'voluntary donation' model actually works.

The plain truth of it is that most people[1] want their internet fix for free, and are prepared to expose all manner of personal information in order for it to STAY free. The moment Facebook actually starts charging for features, people will start to jump ship en-mass to the next free social platform.

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[1] Us lot on HN are not 'most people'.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#92

Post by icebraining » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

izzydata wrote: post #37

fierarul wrote: post #15

I guess one could write a book about anything, but wouldn't this message read better on a flyer or short article? Is deleting a social media account such a brave move that people have to really ponder it, read a book, maybe talk with close family and friends before making a decision? The 1st Facebook account removal I saw was something sudden: this girl had a really bad experience and the next day all her stuff was g…

In a sense, writing a whole book about your decision to delete some social media accounts is just as bad as social media. The whole world doesn't need to know about every mundane detail about your life. You can do things and not feel inclined to tell everyone about it.

The book is not about his decision. In fact, he never had them in the first place.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#93

Post by snikeris » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 2:56 PM UTC

decasia wrote: post #7

The thing I keep thinking is that I want to have social software built on a co-operative model (like a food co-op): you all pay some nominal membership fee (could you fund servers and developers on $5/year/user?), and the software would then be developed to fit the agreed-upon needs of the community, without dark patterns or behavior modification projects, openly, and with some kind of community governance (which nee…

This reminds me of The WELL:

https://www.well.com/

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#94

Post by unstuckdev » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 3:01 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #78

I’m not totally convinced this guy has quit his social media accounts, with his unoriginal opinions on Trump, MeToo, BLM, etc. I haven’t been on FB, Insta, Twitter in years, or Reddit in months and I don’t even think about those things anymore. But I guess he could just hang around people who are still deep into social media.

>> "I haven’t been on FB, Insta, Twitter in years, or Reddit in months and I don’t even think about those things anymore."

The terms used to talk about those things today might have their origins on social media, but the issues existed before someone coined a term. You might want to re-evaluate your associations if no one talks about sexual assault and harassment or the over-policing of black people.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#95

Post by Jaruzel » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 3:01 PM UTC

UsernameProxy wrote: post #11

adamconroy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, nothing lasts forever, and one might 'die' at the hand of the other. It could easily happen through acquisition as he says.

What if the merge? _shudder_

Well... Facebook is worth ~$15bn and Google is worth ~$740bn. I'm sure Google could scrounge up 2% of it's overall worth to buy-out Facebook... but then, Google already know everything about you, so for them, Facebooks data is worthless.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#96

Post by tsunamifury » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 3:06 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #73

I would be interested in his opinion about slapping the user in the face with greyed-out content and a subscription box on top when he tries to follow a link to read this interview. Isn't this a great example for how the digital world doesn't let us do what we intend to and doesn't deliver on its promises?

Jaron supports premium payment for articles. I don’t know why so many hacker news readers both are illogically irate about paywalls and also irate about data collection. The irony is almost overwhelming.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#97

Post by amanaplanacanal » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 3:06 PM UTC

decasia wrote: post #41

darkerside wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a big government advocate, generally speaking, but enacting this at a federal level, would be akin to a modern day postal service. Social media communication without the bells and whistles--or the obsession with engagement. I'd be all for it.

Not sure why you're getting downvoted. I don't think it's likely that government-provided social software would work all that well in the contemporary USA (unless they built it with better security and privacy than they have ever wanted to see in the private sector), but the government can be seen as a version of cooperative funding and it's certainly worth thinking about. I would like it if my local government funde…

I think the bigger problem in the US would be how to deal with free-speech issues. It either has to be moderated (sorry, no free speech here!) or it will be overrun by trolls, spammers, and other evils.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#98

Post by JepZ » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 3:07 PM UTC

krabzzz wrote: post #81

benjaminjackman wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a recommended guide for setting an XMPP server that supports end-to-end encryption?

Why would you want E2E if you run the server, and so can be trusted?

If you run a federated server, not all contacts might use the same server. With end-to-end encryption that doesn't really matter.

EDIT: Moreover, trust is not binary. So while your family might trust you, maybe your dad doesn't want you to be able to read everything he writes your mom or so (you get the idea).

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#99

Post by detaro » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 3:08 PM UTC

Jaruzel wrote: post #91

pdog wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why charge users at all? Social software could be funded entirely by voluntary donations or a small foundation.

Based on how often Wikipedia runs banners asking for donations, I'm not sure the 'voluntary donation' model actually works. The plain truth of it is that most people[1] want their internet fix for free, and are prepared to expose all manner of personal information in order for it to STAY free. The moment Facebook actually starts charging for features, people will start to jump ship en-mass to the next free social pla…

Wikipedia has and spends a lot of money though. 250+ employees, $50+ million yearly expenses, $10+ million yearly profits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation#Financial...

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#100

Post by Loughla » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 3:13 PM UTC

Jaruzel wrote: post #91

pdog wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why charge users at all? Social software could be funded entirely by voluntary donations or a small foundation.

Based on how often Wikipedia runs banners asking for donations, I'm not sure the 'voluntary donation' model actually works. The plain truth of it is that most people[1] want their internet fix for free, and are prepared to expose all manner of personal information in order for it to STAY free. The moment Facebook actually starts charging for features, people will start to jump ship en-mass to the next free social pla…

I would argue that people are only willing to share all manner of personal data for free because they don't actually understand what is out there about them.

I live where HN has absolutely no audience, think middle of nowhere midwest. And I can 100% say that not one person I talk to has any idea what data is available about them, for sale, right now. They don't even understand why it's important to know what permissions your apps on your phone ask for.

I think if tech folks made an effort to get people to understand, in language they can access, what data is out there, we would see a massive (attempt at a) shift in how people use the internet

Edit: Proof of what I say, that i just remembered. My father is extremely right wing, pro-Trump. He was told, by whatever 'news' agency he happens to listen to on AM radio (Maybe Laura Ingram?) that Facebook was doing awful things and they explained, in the most basic terms, what kind of data Facebook may have on you. So father dear deleted his Facebook account.

And opened an Instagram.