A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university • Hacker News Board

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#41

Post by JamesCoyne » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

sjroot wrote: post #4

Apologies if it was mentioned in the article, but I am curious as to how the original attacker acquired the information needed for spear phishing. I suppose business dealings between the university and contractors is public to some extent, but it seems plausible that this attack came from within the university or the contractor.

Look at the email image in the lower portion of the article. All the attacker needed to know was the accounts-payable email address for MacEwan, the true accounts-receivable address for the builder, a reasonably similar domain (.com -> .us) for spoofing, and a convincing email body.

That is a frighteningly easy bar to clear, so it's reasonable to say this was human error more than a problem with information security.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#42

Post by joe_the_user » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

Indeed,

It seems logical for out-and-out fraud to muscle in on "pork" situations. The university is building a status symbol, as much for the prestige of the administration as for any use. They're likely sending the contract to "friends" since they're clearly not terribly concerned with cost-benefits. So you wind-up with a bunch of money just bleeding out with little oversight. And so someone takes even more "initiative" and just scams some of those millions away. Maybe that someone even had some acquaintance with the whole scheme.

Yes, overt crime thrives in a situation of "generalized corruption".

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#43

Post by rthomas6 » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #33

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

>Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? It's the end result of applying capitalism to all human activities. Schools have to compete for students and they do so with activities that prospective students and parents will respond to. It's also why health care costs are higher when privatized, they're similar "markets".

That's part of the reason. But why do costs go down for some things and up for other things when capitalism is applied? Because some markets' demand, like education and the current healthcare market, is not sensitive to price.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#44

Post by Retric » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

wk_end wrote: post #38

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

It’s not clear to me that $180 million is an unreasonable amount of money to spend on a state-of-the-art building with multiple music studios and dance halls, necessary for music or dance programs that the school (presumably) offers. Between the tuition the students pay, grants from government, and potential commercial use of the space (for concerts, shows, etc.) it’ll likely pay for itself soon enough. Also bear in…

The problem is the worlds 'state of the art'.

You don't need a lot of space for dance halls and music studios for under 2000 students. People add sound insulation to existing rooms at relatively low cost and it's cheaper when your starting from scratch.

So, in terms of education they really could have done the same thing for under 50 million, but why build a utilitarian box when you want to attract students.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#45

Post by PaulHoule » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

I get incomprehensible bills from the hospital whenever I get a test or see a physical therapist, etc. Sometimes I get bills about a service that happened 2 years ago, don't remember what the service was, and it seems they can't tell me because that would violate my privacy or something.

I've always wondered if I sent an invoice to the hospital for unspecified services if they'd pay it.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#46

Post by tialaramex » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

rthomas6 wrote: post #37

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

I think colleges are doing these things because of federally guaranteed student loans, because of the following chain of events: 1. Students are price insensitive for college if they don't have to pay for it up front. 2. Banks are incentivized to loan unlimited money to students because the federal government guarantees the loans with zero exceptions-- the bank gets repaid no matter what, so it's very low risk. 3. Co…

> The solution seems obvious to me. But nobody want to do it because it's political suicide.

I like that this works for both readings.

If you say to yourself "Obviously the solution is to eliminate federally backed student loans" that's political suicide because it means most people can't have a tertiary education (even if at some future date this chance means the institutions charge less than today)

If you say to yourself "Obviously the solution is to make tertiary education free at point of use" that's political suicide because it means a big tax hike to pay for it, plus either an unprecedented interference by the state in the operation of non-state entities offering education OR the state builds loads of extra institutions in competition with those pre-existing non-state establishments.

Of course, never say never, twenty years ago who'd have guessed major US politicians would be saying actually maybe we should just have single payer healthcare?

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#47

Post by warent » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #44

wk_end wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not clear to me that $180 million is an unreasonable amount of money to spend on a state-of-the-art building with multiple music studios and dance halls, necessary for music or dance programs that the school (presumably) offers. Between the tuition the students pay, grants from government, and potential commercial use of the space (for concerts, shows, etc.) it’ll likely pay for itself soon enough. Also bear in…

The problem is the worlds 'state of the art'. You don't need a lot of space for dance halls and music studios for under 2000 students. People add sound insulation to existing rooms at relatively low cost and it's cheaper when your starting from scratch. So, in terms of education they really could have done the same thing for under 50 million, but why build a utilitarian box when you want to attract students.

I think they meant it's enough space for 1800 students simultaneously, which is actually quite a large number.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#48

Post by TuringNYC » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

tialaramex wrote: post #46

rthomas6 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think colleges are doing these things because of federally guaranteed student loans, because of the following chain of events: 1. Students are price insensitive for college if they don't have to pay for it up front. 2. Banks are incentivized to loan unlimited money to students because the federal government guarantees the loans with zero exceptions-- the bank gets repaid no matter what, so it's very low risk. 3. Co…

> The solution seems obvious to me. But nobody want to do it because it's political suicide. I like that this works for both readings. If you say to yourself "Obviously the solution is to eliminate federally backed student loans" that's political suicide because it means most people can't have a tertiary education (even if at some future date this chance means the institutions charge less than today) If you say to yo…

Isnt there a middle ground? Like having tertiary education free for state/city/public universities to ensure the poor arent left without choice. And also eliminating federally backed student loans so eventually all schools normalize price and all schools become increasingly affordable?

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#49

Post by digitalmango » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

wk_end wrote: post #38

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

It’s not clear to me that $180 million is an unreasonable amount of money to spend on a state-of-the-art building with multiple music studios and dance halls, necessary for music or dance programs that the school (presumably) offers. Between the tuition the students pay, grants from government, and potential commercial use of the space (for concerts, shows, etc.) it’ll likely pay for itself soon enough. Also bear in…

As per the article: >$11.8 million is equal to one-eighth of the total amount the university took in through tuition and fees during the 2016-2017 academic year. So they are spending 2 approx twice of there tuition revenue on one building. I guess this kind of money could have been put to better use.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#50

Post by alaskamiller » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:34 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

A building is meant to last for awhile. Say it's 20 years.

$180MM / (20 yrs x 1800 people) = $5000/yr/person

Is that unreasonable?