A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university • Hacker News Board

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#31

Post by r00fus » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #21

walrus01 wrote: post #14

This is why all staff, whether at a corporation, nonprofit or government that handle money should be put through a two hour anti-phishing training course. There's lots of good free training material out there. There are also services which you can hire. You give them a list of staff emails, and they send test phishes to everyone. Those who respond or click on links (there's a GUID in each phish) can be sent for furth…

While I think everyone should be aware of phishing, I don't think any amount of education can reliably prevent this sort of fraud. I see this fundamentally as a process problem, as I assume email was a common way of changing payment information. Email needs to be taken out of the loop.

> I don't think any amount of education can reliably prevent this sort of fraud.

The (possibly remedial) education isn't to prevent the fraud, it's to make your population more resistant to it.

At some point in the far future if it's part of basic education courses, then we may create herd inoculation effect where phishing fraud may become unprofitable enough to further depress likelihood (like highway banditry of days yore).

Email will never go away - it will always be some part of the payment process even if it's just remittance. It's too ubiquitous.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#32

Post by badrequest » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #21

walrus01 wrote: post #14

This is why all staff, whether at a corporation, nonprofit or government that handle money should be put through a two hour anti-phishing training course. There's lots of good free training material out there. There are also services which you can hire. You give them a list of staff emails, and they send test phishes to everyone. Those who respond or click on links (there's a GUID in each phish) can be sent for furth…

While I think everyone should be aware of phishing, I don't think any amount of education can reliably prevent this sort of fraud. I see this fundamentally as a process problem, as I assume email was a common way of changing payment information. Email needs to be taken out of the loop.

I wonder if GPG could have ensured this didn't happen.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#33

Post by minikites » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

>Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars?

It's the end result of applying capitalism to all human activities. Schools have to compete for students and they do so with activities that prospective students and parents will respond to. It's also why health care costs are higher when privatized, they're similar "markets".

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#34

Post by grecy » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

It's the way our "Developed World" functions now - growth above all else.

My brother recently built a house, and the taxes and fees from the local city council are sky high. Of course, the city council did just build themselves a lavish new office building for $20M that looks like it belongs in a contemporary art museum.

It's no secret if they had just built a nice and functional building with the same office space for $10M everyone would be paying less city rates. But that's not how our world works.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#35

Post by RobLach » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

It’s a sign of trust and respect to invest heavily into institutions you believe in. You want that building to feel like forever and the costs skyrocket when you no longer use mass market materials.

That said, institutions are quick to exploit this romanticism and things start to lose perspective.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#36

Post by grecy » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

ig1 wrote: post #15

I'd love to fund a startup fixing this problem. It's a clear space where technology has the edge over humans and there's huge network advantages (e.g. you see a new account # for a known entity, especially at a different bank it's a big red flag).

> I'd love to fund a startup fixing this problem

I know a great way you can get the funding you need....

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#37

Post by rthomas6 » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

I think colleges are doing these things because of federally guaranteed student loans, because of the following chain of events:

1. Students are price insensitive for college if they don't have to pay for it up front.

2. Banks are incentivized to loan unlimited money to students because the federal government guarantees the loans with zero exceptions-- the bank gets repaid no matter what, so it's very low risk.

3. Colleges and universities are incentivized to increase tuition, because the demand curve is almost completely flat because of 1 and 2.

The solution seems obvious to me: stop guaranteeing student loans, and stop subsidizing them. But nobody want to do it because it's political suicide.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#38

Post by wk_end » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

It’s not clear to me that $180 million is an unreasonable amount of money to spend on a state-of-the-art building with multiple music studios and dance halls, necessary for music or dance programs that the school (presumably) offers. Between the tuition the students pay, grants from government, and potential commercial use of the space (for concerts, shows, etc.) it’ll likely pay for itself soon enough.

Also bear in mind - while still pricy, higher education in Canada is leagues cheaper than in the US. My degree from UofT - usually internationally ranked among or at least near the Ivy Leagues - was about $5000 a year.

So I’m not sure this belongs in the same category of educational institution excess or Bermuda Triangle of finance stuff you’re talking about.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#39

Post by epx » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:19 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #17

cknoxrun wrote: post #2

This seems like a technology problem, not a personnel problem. There should be more checks in a system when you are changing bank accounts where so much money is going to be deposited.

This scam has been going on in the UK for a few years. It's called "authorised push payment (APP) fraud". Typically you're having some building work done (or any other large project or purchase), and an email will arrive from the builder saying they've changed their account details, could the purchaser please send future bank transfers to the new account. Of course the email is fraudulent and usually happens because…

In Brazil we see the name of recipient and we must inform the identity of the recipient (11 digits for persons, 14 for businesses) and everything has single or double check digits.

Re: A fraudster got $12M out of a Canadian university

#40

Post by ta2121 » Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

wk_end wrote: post #38

drewg123 wrote: post #27

MacEwan was in the midst of constructing the $180-million Allard Hall: a state-of-the-art building boasting music studios and dance halls with room for 1,800 students Why does a college need a building that costs a large fraction of a billion dollars? Early this week we had an article about college education costs being one corner of the "Bermuda triangle" of personal finance. Out of control spending on new, shiny th…

It’s not clear to me that $180 million is an unreasonable amount of money to spend on a state-of-the-art building with multiple music studios and dance halls, necessary for music or dance programs that the school (presumably) offers. Between the tuition the students pay, grants from government, and potential commercial use of the space (for concerts, shows, etc.) it’ll likely pay for itself soon enough. Also bear in…

>it’ll likely pay for itself soon enough.

Thats the problem though right? "Paying for itself" means students paying higher costs which is the problem.