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Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

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Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#101

Post by fermienrico »

fx32s wrote: post #84
esalman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that people who understand the value of privacy are probably less than 1% of the total population. The rest don't understand or don't care and they are the target consumers of the said corporations. So simply logging out of Facebook or start buying Apple products yourself is not enough anymore. For the same reason I can't buy your prediction about next big successful companies, even if I would like to.

I feel the common rhetoric here is to dictate people what's ok and what's not under the assumption they don't understand. Many people (including myself) are fine with the price we pay for free online services and understand the downsides. I really don't mind companies trying to show me more relevant ads by tracking and analyzing what I interact with in return for most of the products I use being free. Obviously a lar…

Would you be ok with trading off your medical history for example?

What about insurance companies providing you a quote based on your online habits? Browsing car modification forums and then all of a sudden your car insurance goes up.

What about location based privacy?

What about government powers being able to exploit existing advertisement data infrastructure for law enforcement purposes?

Sure, seeing a new camera ad on instagram is harmless but the overreaching possibilities of sacrificing privacy are deep, profound for the society. There are so many aspects, I've just put forth a few above.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#102

Post by blang »

kbenson wrote: post #97
wil421 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don’t get mad when they see a coke bottle or an Apple product placed in a scene of a movie or tv show. People do get mad when they are trying to watch TV and they keep being forced to watch a commercial.

General advertising is not a problem. Individually targeted advertising is. General advertising includes the sign on the door or exterior of the brick and mirter storefront, as well as billboards, magazine/newspaper ads, and product placement in media. It ranges from almost entirely informative (on the storefront) to annoying and off-putting (some billboards, poorly done product placement). This advertising is passiv…

All advertising is targeted. Billboard ads change based on the neighborhood you are in. Magazine/Newspaper ads are different from magazine demographic to magazine demographic. TV ads vary dramatically based on channel, time of day, and program.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#103

Post by cronix »

esalman wrote: post #82
mikeleeorg wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very sobering article.

Isn't it? It's sad that this wave of nationalist and right-wing mentality is taking over the world, Brazil being the latest example. My worst fear is that someone like, or worse, than Hitler will have to come along until this trend reverses itself.

And think of what someone who was Hitler-like could do with all of this data that we send these companies (and governments). Just take one example of "rounding up homosexuals"... it couldn't be easier to find out who they are in today's world. Someone knows the products they buy, the type of porn they watch (if they do), the "friends" they communicate with (and what was said), the places they visit or have visited in the past and a myriad of other things all time and date stamped. We just need to look at how China is integrating this type of data into the tech the gov't and police forces are using, ie "social credit system." The data already exists... it's just a matter of how it's used. Seriously, imagine what more Hitler could have/would have done if the Nazis had access to the type of data that is "freely" available today... This data doesn't go away. It can be used at anytime in the future, when "views" change. What's ok now, might not be at some point later on. Let your mind wander a little. Think. We are basically inputting every detail of our lives into "evidence." This isn't a right wing/left wing thing. Socialists would love to make sure you're "in-line" with the party as much as a Nazi would. Again, look at what China is currently doing. Times change, and with that so do the beliefs and morals. What I fear most is how our current data will be used by these future "regimes", however you want to label them. Soon, all of this data will be more about control than it currently is. We're debating stupid annoying ads. Think of the other more serious ramifications with this data in the "wrong hands."

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#104

Post by blang »

pm90 wrote: post #78
fermienrico wrote: post #9

It’s very simple: As a consumer, we cannot trust any advertisement company. Their goals are in direct conflict with user privacy. In fact it’s not a wishful goal, it is their business model. Our attention is very expensive and everything is designed around us to grab us by the neck so to speak. Flashing ads, stories and feeds. I cannot, absolutely cannot, trust Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, Facebook, Visa, Amex,…

It isn't just those companies. Even retailers like Walmart, Sears etc. collect and sell your data. This is why loyalty cards provide so many discounts; its not just that they want to to be a repeat customer, but your habits are valuable for them to track and sell.

Like target figuring out your daughter is pregnant: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits....

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#105

Post by jfk13 »

arthurcolle wrote: post #96
Kalium wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find some of the implications here very interesting. Apple is rapidly approaching the status of being a luxury goods brand. They certainly charge luxury goods prices. This implies that privacy is a luxury good. That isn't wrong, in a strictly factual and financial sense. There's money to be made invading privacy that certainly can help defray device costs. It's possible that some might opine that this might be less…

Pomme is totally lying about privacy. They are just a little more clever in how they portray themselves to the public. Everything is networked, and anyone with LS (maybe other tools exist, but LS certainly serves my needs well) can see how many times actions are taken in the form of outgoing requests on your primary content-creation/programming device that isn't just a passive device meant to consume content, and few…

> When they see you don't have AppleCare (or AppleCare+, or AppleCare++, whatever they want to call it) on a device they will deliberately cause that device to malfunction using a device-specific OTA update that causes things like dead pixels, and other visible obstructions that make the device slightly less usable than it was before.

Citation? I haven't seen any indication that this has happened to any of the Apple devices I've used, over quite a number of years.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#106

Post by netsharc »

JeanMarcS wrote: post #66
lotsofpulp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are enormous amounts of product placement in Netflix's content.

And next, they’ll shoot shows with green boxes and green posters, and it will be filled with targeted brands on the fly. I think that’s the next move as soon as the technology will be ready.

Geez, Nvidia could call them, "so we hear you're interested in realistic rendering"?

I guess it doesn't need to be real time, so no super graphic cards are needed... or can it be real time? If a website (e.g. a hotel booking site) uses an ad network with "remarketing" (for this example let's say Google), it can tell Google you just looked for a hotel in Venice, and the next site you visit that has Google's banner ads will advertise "Hotel rooms in Venice!". Imagine looking up sweaters on a clothing site, flipping to Netflix, and an extra walks by that looks like you wearing a sweater that you looked at a minute ago...

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#107

Post by s09dfhks »

Animats wrote: post #24

Maybe there's an opportunity here for someone to do to Facebook what Craigslist did to print newspapers. What people want is a way to keep in touch with their friends. But that's not a big revenue generator. So the "social networks" put in ads, "sponsored tweets", and other crap. Then users get fed up and leave. (Doubling down on ads as the number of users drops is called "pulling a Myspace"). A basic friends-only sy…

Isnt this what Mastodon is trying to be?

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#108

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

fx32s wrote: post #84
esalman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that people who understand the value of privacy are probably less than 1% of the total population. The rest don't understand or don't care and they are the target consumers of the said corporations. So simply logging out of Facebook or start buying Apple products yourself is not enough anymore. For the same reason I can't buy your prediction about next big successful companies, even if I would like to.

I feel the common rhetoric here is to dictate people what's ok and what's not under the assumption they don't understand. Many people (including myself) are fine with the price we pay for free online services and understand the downsides. I really don't mind companies trying to show me more relevant ads by tracking and analyzing what I interact with in return for most of the products I use being free. Obviously a lar…

So, would you be OK then with making it illegal to share any information about people who themselves didn't consent on those "free" platforms? You cannot upload pictures and you cannot mention them?

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#109

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

Aunche wrote: post #87
esalman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that people who understand the value of privacy are probably less than 1% of the total population. The rest don't understand or don't care and they are the target consumers of the said corporations. So simply logging out of Facebook or start buying Apple products yourself is not enough anymore. For the same reason I can't buy your prediction about next big successful companies, even if I would like to.

> people who understand the value of privacy are probably less than 1% of the total population Am I so out of touch? No it must be 99% of people who are wrong. What exactly is the value of privacy besides the satisfaction that big tech companies aren't making as much money from me?

> Am I so out of touch?

Yes.

> What exactly is the value of privacy besides the satisfaction that big tech companies aren't making as much money from me?

1. Where does that money that they are making come from?

2. The value of privacy is that without it there is no personal autonomy. Without privacy, you lose all power over your life.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#110

Post by kbenson »

blang wrote: post #102
kbenson wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General advertising is not a problem. Individually targeted advertising is. General advertising includes the sign on the door or exterior of the brick and mirter storefront, as well as billboards, magazine/newspaper ads, and product placement in media. It ranges from almost entirely informative (on the storefront) to annoying and off-putting (some billboards, poorly done product placement). This advertising is passiv…

All advertising is targeted. Billboard ads change based on the neighborhood you are in. Magazine/Newspaper ads are different from magazine demographic to magazine demographic. TV ads vary dramatically based on channel, time of day, and program.

Well, yes, but I'm using "targeted" in the context of "personally targeted".

Group targeting is less of a problem because then they are working on averages and predominant group characteristics, which does not mean any one individual does correspond to those.

For example, a billboard may target an area with a message mainly meant for LGBT people, or for Hispanic people, but living or frequenting that area foes not mean you are LGBT or Hispanic respectively. There is still a level of anonymity there that protects privacy.

I've updated my original comment to make this more clear, so thanks for calling out the ambiguity.

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