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Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

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Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#71

Post by gricardo99 »

wil421 wrote: post #59
lotsofpulp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are enormous amounts of product placement in Netflix's content.

Most people don’t get mad when they see a coke bottle or an Apple product placed in a scene of a movie or tv show. People do get mad when they are trying to watch TV and they keep being forced to watch a commercial.

I couldn't agree more. The new age of "cloud DVRs" is infuriating. I used to have a DVR that worked fine, I could skip over whatever I wanted. Now with the "cloud DVRs" we're back to being forced into watching commercials.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#72

Post by merpnderp »

zer0zzz wrote: post #47
fermienrico wrote: post #9

It’s very simple: As a consumer, we cannot trust any advertisement company. Their goals are in direct conflict with user privacy. In fact it’s not a wishful goal, it is their business model. Our attention is very expensive and everything is designed around us to grab us by the neck so to speak. Flashing ads, stories and feeds. I cannot, absolutely cannot, trust Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, Facebook, Visa, Amex,…

No one cares. The entire tech industry is built on producing products people don’t need to connect you to people you don’t like. The masses of people don’t care about any of this, and that includes the people that have the luxury to spend extra money on privacy.

That's a good point about "connect you to people you don't like." I was just thinking the other day about how the people I know in real life are likeable, but their online personalities are petty, bigoted, closed minded, and mean spirited. I don't know who's the real them, the people I know in person, or the person online. But for the most part, I wish I didn't know their online persona.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#73

Post by netcan »

Animats wrote: post #24

Maybe there's an opportunity here for someone to do to Facebook what Craigslist did to print newspapers. What people want is a way to keep in touch with their friends. But that's not a big revenue generator. So the "social networks" put in ads, "sponsored tweets", and other crap. Then users get fed up and leave. (Doubling down on ads as the number of users drops is called "pulling a Myspace"). A basic friends-only sy…

Yup. And if you get enough users to make it onto Zuck's radar, he'll buy you for unicorn money and you'll be rich! Hey.. whatsapp?

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#74

Post by falcolas »

Animats wrote: post #24

Maybe there's an opportunity here for someone to do to Facebook what Craigslist did to print newspapers. What people want is a way to keep in touch with their friends. But that's not a big revenue generator. So the "social networks" put in ads, "sponsored tweets", and other crap. Then users get fed up and leave. (Doubling down on ads as the number of users drops is called "pulling a Myspace"). A basic friends-only sy…

The most basic "friends" system is, IMO, an authenticated mailing list with P2P sharing for pictures and movies. Not a lot of money to be made there at all, though it fits the bills for privacy and decentralization.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#75

Post by gibsonf1 »

Animats wrote: post #24

Maybe there's an opportunity here for someone to do to Facebook what Craigslist did to print newspapers. What people want is a way to keep in touch with their friends. But that's not a big revenue generator. So the "social networks" put in ads, "sponsored tweets", and other crap. Then users get fed up and leave. (Doubling down on ads as the number of users drops is called "pulling a Myspace"). A basic friends-only sy…

It would be great to have the Solid version of facebook where users control their own data with a great UI that accesses the data only as allowed by the users.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#76

Post by mikeleeorg »

esalman wrote: post #57
toomuchtodo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that people who understand the value of privacy are probably less than 1% of the total population. This is more than enough people to encourage public policy makers to make appropriate policy decisions, and failing that, run for office. Are you a squeaky wheel? If not, make yourself one.

It's funny because just this morning I came across and read through an article on how hard it has become for progressive minded people to run for, let alone actually get to the office. Here's the link if anyone is interested: http://idlewords.com/2018/10/portrait_of_a_campaign.htm Sorry if it sounds offensive, but I feel that we (hacker news crowd) really overestimate ourselves. Each one of our votes has the same wei…

That's a very sobering article.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#77

Post by cgriswald »

fermienrico wrote: post #28
pmiller2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You left off Amazon from the “can’t trust” list. IMO they would be there even if they hadn’t recently started expanding into advertising, because their business model seems to be to expand existing operations until there’s a critical mass, then slither off into an adjacent sector and repeat. And, just to round out the list, Netflix looks like one that’s actually trustworthy. They don’t advertise, and the info they ha…

That's a good point about Amazon, I added it. Amazon has an incredible amount of data about my purchase history. I'll also add Amex, Visa, and MasterCard. Netflix - I am conflicted between the choice of giving up my privacy to provide better suggestions. How about I actively go research for a particular movie on my own? Why do I need AI telling me what to watch. Word of mouth is a fantastic way to get recommendations…

> Apple is an exception and I hope they continue to charge premium for their products.

> Netflix - I am conflicted between the choice of giving up my privacy to provide better suggestions.

I'm confused by this conflict.

Netflix uses your personal data to help you get more out of the service. An argument could be made that they do this because subscribers then tend to remain subscribers for longer; but the counterargument there is that it is because those subscribers are getting more out of their subscriptions. I struggle to see any scenario where recommendations make people who are getting nothing out of the service stick around.

Apple uses personal data to make recommendations as well, but these are advertisements, because they are recommending additional products for purchase (and typically the products of third parties for which Apple gets a cut).

Is the difference here that Apple asks before they use this information?

> giving up my privacy to provide better suggestions.

The act of watching something on Netflix (or even just surfing the app and not watching anything) constitutes giving up your privacy. Netflix now knows (even if it forces itself to forget) something about you. I don't think it is problematic for a company to use this information to improve its services. I don't think the cynical view–that Netflix does it because it keeps subscribers around for longer–really matters here. I can't imagine a scenario where recommendations convince people to stick around who would otherwise need, except in that they provide a better experience.

The owner of a cafe I frequent knows many things about me and uses them to provide a better service. She will sometimes have my drink waiting for me because she knows what I drink and when I am going to be there. She knows I am not going to skip out on a bill, so she will make my drink out of order and let me pay later when the line has died. Etc. etc. I don't see Netflix recommendations as a whole lot different than that; just less personal.

I think sharing personal information with businesses parallels sharing information with individuals. If I tell a friend something and he starts blabbing it all over time (for free or for pay) or tries to use it against me somehow, we're going to have a problem. The same with Netflix. If they try to use it to manipulate me or they start selling it to third parties: problem. I want to control what I share, with who.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#78

Post by pm90 »

fermienrico wrote: post #9

It’s very simple: As a consumer, we cannot trust any advertisement company. Their goals are in direct conflict with user privacy. In fact it’s not a wishful goal, it is their business model. Our attention is very expensive and everything is designed around us to grab us by the neck so to speak. Flashing ads, stories and feeds. I cannot, absolutely cannot, trust Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, Facebook, Visa, Amex,…

It isn't just those companies. Even retailers like Walmart, Sears etc. collect and sell your data. This is why loyalty cards provide so many discounts; its not just that they want to to be a repeat customer, but your habits are valuable for them to track and sell.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#79

Post by move-on-by »

wil421 wrote: post #59
lotsofpulp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are enormous amounts of product placement in Netflix's content.

Most people don’t get mad when they see a coke bottle or an Apple product placed in a scene of a movie or tv show. People do get mad when they are trying to watch TV and they keep being forced to watch a commercial.

Product placements also aren't targeted beyond the general target audience of the show. Privacy issues are at the heart of targeted ads. Advertisement mediums that cannot dynamically target the individuals are at less risk of violating your privacy.

Of course now advertisers are looking to ultrasonic beacons to get around the lack of targeting and data collection, but for the most part product placements aren't the malicious and disruptive advertisements we've become victims of.

Re: Facebook Isn’t Sorry, It Just Wants Your Data

#80

Post by codyb »

esalman wrote: post #57
toomuchtodo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that people who understand the value of privacy are probably less than 1% of the total population. This is more than enough people to encourage public policy makers to make appropriate policy decisions, and failing that, run for office. Are you a squeaky wheel? If not, make yourself one.

It's funny because just this morning I came across and read through an article on how hard it has become for progressive minded people to run for, let alone actually get to the office. Here's the link if anyone is interested: http://idlewords.com/2018/10/portrait_of_a_campaign.htm Sorry if it sounds offensive, but I feel that we (hacker news crowd) really overestimate ourselves. Each one of our votes has the same wei…

For the most parts our votes count for less because we live in states like NY and CA which get two senators despite staggeringly larger populations than the vast majority of states.

This also means in Presidential elections our votes count less as well.

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