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DOD Just Beginning to Grapple with Scale of Weapon Systems Vulnerabilities

gao.gov

41–50 of 225 posts

Re: DOD Just Beginning to Grapple with Scale of Weapon Systems Vulnerabilities

#41
post #16

The US is going to lose a war this way.

Is there any reason to believe the state of Russian/Chinese/etc. security is any better in this regard?

Russia's aging military hardware is an asset in this case, as it's not as vulnerable to electronic intrusion as a result of having little to intrude.

Re: DOD Just Beginning to Grapple with Scale of Weapon Systems Vulnerabilities

#42
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of your technical details are badly incorrect. Not sure who you talked to, but they're not well informed.

Based on what? He's quoting people he talked to and reports what he's seen. Whereas you just naysay.

Based on my first-hand experience as a solider in the US Army, talking to 4-5 low-ranked sailors is unlikely to give a meaningful picture of the whole system. I don't have specific experience with Navy systems to judge the technical details of komali2's post, but I would caution against taking a summary of second-hand accounts from operators as fact.

Re: DOD Just Beginning to Grapple with Scale of Weapon Systems Vulnerabilities

#43
post #2

The good stuff is in the PDF: https://www.gao.gov/assets/700/694913.pdf - Running a port scan caused the weapons system to fail - One admin password for a system was guessed in nine seconds - "Nearly all major acquisition programs that were operationally tested between 2012 and 2017 had mission-critical cyber vulnerabilities that adversaries could compromise." - Taking over systems was pretty much playing on easy mod…

Aren’t there reams of security standards and thousands of man-years of security compliance bureaucracy for even the most basic DOD IT projects? And they still have trivial vulnerabilities like this? Is the process really that useless?

Maybe? I somewhat doubt it, since I work for a company that has a couple of DOD IT products that are in fairly widespread use, and I don't know that we have done any security compliance to speak of over the past seven or eight years. In that time period we haven't done a ton of work, but we have had to make some changes to move from a really ancient JRE version to a slightly less ancient one.

Re: DOD Just Beginning to Grapple with Scale of Weapon Systems Vulnerabilities

#44
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are trusted by internal machines -- since a lot of internal authentication relies on these certificates. The DOD long ago moved away from password-based authentication mechanisms to certificate-based authentication (GSC-IS initially (CAC), now NIST SP 800-73 (PIV; CAC II)) and so the system will have the correct certificates or the user generally won't be able to login. What I find as the most common error is th…

This bit is curious. I was issued a CAC while I was in, and as you said, it eliminated the need for passwords. But the internal sites (no matter if it was a laptop from the comm section, a hardwired desktop in a unit's building, or a desktop in a base facility) always failed the check for the certificate store. I always got the security warning (or insecure message) regardless of browser.

That's my recollection as well.

Re: DOD Just Beginning to Grapple with Scale of Weapon Systems Vulnerabilities

#45
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Test reports we reviewed make it clear that simply having cybersecurity controls does not mean a system is secure. How the controls are implemented can significantly affect cybersecurity. For example, one test report we reviewed indicated that the system had implemented rolebased access control, but internal system communications were unencrypted. Because the system’s internal communications were unencrypted, a reg…

> scary if the military is driven like an MBA only led business with no influence from engineering/security Having known many people that worked in/around the military and defense industry, this seems like our reality.

The modern DoD is based around the Asst Sec Defs and business processes put in place by Robert McNamara, who came from Ford. It's all stats and businees. Engineers and scientists are generally considered a sideshow, a workforce to quantitate.

Re: DOD Just Beginning to Grapple with Scale of Weapon Systems Vulnerabilities

#46
post #20

You'll see things here that look odd, even antiquated to modern eyes. Phones with cords, awkward manual valves, computers that barely deserve the name. But all of it is intentional. It's all designed to operate in combat against an enemy who could infiltrate and disrupt all but the most basic computer systems. Of course, those attitudes have changed through the years and Galactica is something of a relic. A reminder…

.. and now I need to re-watch the series again. Or at least the opener.

Re: DOD Just Beginning to Grapple with Scale of Weapon Systems Vulnerabilities

#47
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are trusted by internal machines -- since a lot of internal authentication relies on these certificates. The DOD long ago moved away from password-based authentication mechanisms to certificate-based authentication (GSC-IS initially (CAC), now NIST SP 800-73 (PIV; CAC II)) and so the system will have the correct certificates or the user generally won't be able to login. What I find as the most common error is th…

This bit is curious. I was issued a CAC while I was in, and as you said, it eliminated the need for passwords. But the internal sites (no matter if it was a laptop from the comm section, a hardwired desktop in a unit's building, or a desktop in a base facility) always failed the check for the certificate store. I always got the security warning (or insecure message) regardless of browser.

What happens in some cases is that new intermediate CAs are introduced and older client's certificate stores are not updated. In this case it is a TLS server error as the TLS server should be sending you all the intermediate certs to chain you to "DoD Root CA 2" (the root of DOD PKI -- which is also where smartcards are issued from, via different intermediate certificate authorities, prior to FPKI).

Re: DOD Just Beginning to Grapple with Scale of Weapon Systems Vulnerabilities

#48
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> scary if the military is driven like an MBA only led business with no influence from engineering/security Having known many people that worked in/around the military and defense industry, this seems like our reality.

The modern DoD is based around the Asst Sec Defs and business processes put in place by Robert McNamara, who came from Ford. It's all stats and businees. Engineers and scientists are generally considered a sideshow, a workforce to quantitate.

A technology/security/defense product that the DoD is, should be more product focused rather than just metrics, metrics are important, but product, usability, security is more important. The wrong metrics can lead you astray[1].

The amount we pay for security, it is appalling some of the data in OP's report just to hit some arbitrary number over security and understanding of a defense product.

> The modern DoD is based around the Asst Sec Defs and business processes put in place by Robert McNamara

Robert McNamara, a Harvard Business School MBA, 'epitomizes the hyper-rational executive led astray by numbers' [1]

[1] https://www.technologyreview.com/s/514591/the-dictatorship-o...

Re: DOD Just Beginning to Grapple with Scale of Weapon Systems Vulnerabilities

#49
post #20

You'll see things here that look odd, even antiquated to modern eyes. Phones with cords, awkward manual valves, computers that barely deserve the name. But all of it is intentional. It's all designed to operate in combat against an enemy who could infiltrate and disrupt all but the most basic computer systems. Of course, those attitudes have changed through the years and Galactica is something of a relic. A reminder…

No networked computers on my ship.

Re: DOD Just Beginning to Grapple with Scale of Weapon Systems Vulnerabilities

#50
post #2

The good stuff is in the PDF: https://www.gao.gov/assets/700/694913.pdf - Running a port scan caused the weapons system to fail - One admin password for a system was guessed in nine seconds - "Nearly all major acquisition programs that were operationally tested between 2012 and 2017 had mission-critical cyber vulnerabilities that adversaries could compromise." - Taking over systems was pretty much playing on easy mod…

A side note: the picture in the first few pages of the pdf looks like the original authors intent, aka, not pointing to a particular part of the fake plane for each subsystem. The picture on the web was "upgraded" editorially to point to specific parts for... ? Marketing reasons? Not sure but its hilarious because the logistics system of the web version of the fake plane is in a missile.
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