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The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

businessweek.com

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Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#161

Post by borism »

rmc wrote: post #154
borism wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, Ireland's structural problems are not limited to property bubble? Perhaps it's the symptom, not the cause?

There was a large bank bailout, due to how much the banks had invested in property. A large percentage of government income (around 25%) came from 'Stamp Duty', the tax you must pay when you buy a house. When the property market collapsed, the government was getting less money that it was used to. i.e. the collapse of the property market increased government spending/debt and decreased government income.

But WHY did Irish banks invest more in property than everyone else?

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#162

Post by xenophanes »

grellas wrote: post #13

Google is "flying a banner of doing no evil, and then they're perpetrating evil under our noses," says Abraham J. Briloff, a professor emeritus of accounting at Baruch College who has examined Google's tax disclosures. Maybe it is the lawyer in me, but why wouldn't any international business do whatever it could legally do to minimize its taxes? I understand that governments might want to consider these as loopholes…

I think it'd be illegal for Google NOT to use tax shelters. They have to maximize shareholder value. They can't just give money away to whoever they feel like for no reason, including to the US Govt.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#163

Post by jmaygarden »

ceejayoz wrote: post #114
aristidb wrote: post #60

Does Google not pay plenty in income tax on its employees, who in fact do generate that precious intellectual property? Looking only at taxed profits is misleading.

How is that at all relevant? If I steal a couch from a furniture store, I don't get to defend myself in court by saying I bought a table from them.

Who stole anything in this case? That's not a valid analogy as one act is legal and the other is not.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#164

Post by philwelch »

dbingham wrote: post #30
lionhearted wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That seems absurd by free enterprise standards and I am genuinely curious to know why refusing to do this would be called "evil." When taxes come up, it tends not to be a well-thought, cohesive, pros-and-cons thing. It tends to be an emotional/identity thing. Some people think and almost always argue it'd be a good thing if companies gave more money over to governments. Me, I think it's very good for the world on e…

Well, it's up to England's citizens to change the efficiency of England's government. Google is doing great things. By but dodging its taxes, it is forcing ordinary citizens to pay more. Or make do with less. It doesn't matter whether it would do better with the money. I think I could do better with my tax money than the US government. But then, that's not my choice to make. My job is to work to make sure that the US…

So you've never claimed tax deductions or used a 401(k) or IRA, or ever had health insurance from your employer? Those are all legal ways of "dodging" taxes.

If the government wants to collect more tax, the government can close tax incentives. There's no individual duty not to exploit tax incentives if they're open to you.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#165

Post by AlexMuir »

I'm glad google keeps it's money and invests in developing google maps, streetview, and gmail. The government would (and does) pay billions to IT consultants to build much shitter systems.

In the UK our government has sunk billions into the Royal Mail, but we still have to pay thousands a year for just a fraction of the functionality of google's geocoding.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#166

Post by chc »

notahacker wrote: post #128
ataggart wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>None of those products/services would be possible but for the government spending taxpayer money... This is sloppy reasoning. Just because A contributed in some measure to B does not imply B could only have come about because of the contributions of A, nor does it imply that more of A will yield more Bs. Further, absent a parallel world in which such different choices were made, one could just as easily argue on eco…

Although Sebastian's original post stopped just short of doing so, it would be equally sloppy to suggest that Google's ability to come up with amazing free (but profitable) services was a consequence of their tax avoidance.

Only because calling it "tax avoidance" is overspecifying. Google's ability to come up with amazing free services without immediate profitability is a consequence of their considerable post-tax revenue.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#168

Post by ceejayoz »

jmaygarden wrote: post #163
ceejayoz wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that at all relevant? If I steal a couch from a furniture store, I don't get to defend myself in court by saying I bought a table from them.

Who stole anything in this case? That's not a valid analogy as one act is legal and the other is not.

You're missing the point of the analogy. If the legal status of the two alternatives is in question, fine...

"Sure, I cheated on you with your sister, but at least I didn't cheat on you with your mum!"

Google is dodging taxes by shuffling their profits around the world. Everyone knows the numbers are a legal fiction, and while legal, there are valid questions about how ethical a practice it is. That they pay other taxes is by no means a defense.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#169

Post by benmccann »

jbooth wrote: post #3

From the article: "Google's practices are very similar to those at countless other global companies operating across a wide range of industries," So, why's the article about Google? Shouldn't the article be about "countless global companies" bilking us for billions? I'm astonished at the lack of outrage on this issue every time it comes up.

This is a commonly accepted best practice in corporate accounting. In 2006 the IRS approved Google's transfer pricing arrangements. Also, it's so common that there is a name for it - "The Double Irish". Bloomberg recently had an article on the same topic: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-05-13/american-companies-...

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#170

Post by notahacker »

tkahn6 wrote: post #153
notahacker wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NHS employs a lot more people than Google and carries out research and development into saving people's lives. Sure, what Google does is great, but I'm really not convinced that thinking up ever more creative outlets to display targeted advertising is necessarily a better outcome for society than spending the money on the UK public sector, which has many worthwhile projects of its own. I'm going to go out on a li…

but it's equally a stretch to suggest that we're better off because Google pays less tax In absolutely no way is it a stretch to say that and I'm terribly surprised you have any upvotes. Are you aware of how many services Google provides for free that make my life (and probably yours) better? Google Search Google Maps Android Google Navigation (on Android) Google Patent Search Google Book Search (Working with librari…

Which of the above services do you think wouldn't exist if Google avoided less tax?

There's an opportunity cost of private companies paying less tax too - either someone else pays more tax which marginally decreases their ability to be productive and enterprising or something purportedly socially beneficial doesn't get paid for. Even coupled with inspired management, the profit motive doesn't ensure that an acquisition of say, Dodgeball for the price of a hospital wing, is an optimal use of resources.

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