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Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

antipolygraph.org

91–100 of 112 posts

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#91

The total fucking insanity of people in this thread defending a polygraph because they get their checks from the person giving it to them. “Yeah they don’t work but whatever just take them and forget about how pointless and absurd it is.” Reminds me of the attitude around school shootings. Grow a fucking spine you cowardly weasels. Frightening to think most of you work in intelligence/defense. What a crock of shit th…

Would you please stop posting flamebait to HN and breaking the site guidelines in sundry ways? We ban accounts that do that, and you've done it a lot.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#92
In 1967, as a soon to be graduate from a university in what is today called computer science, I applied to the NSA and nothing about that interview was nice. I failed the polygraph on two consecutive days and that's all she wrote. What tripped me up was the question "have you had any homosexual activity." The pen almost went off the graph when I truthfully said, "no."

Where and when I grew up that was about the worst thing that could be said of a young male. On the trip to the interview my magic magnifying mind had wondered about whether sensitivity to a question alone could cause truth to appear to be a lie. Of course the question that popped into my mind which I anticipated was the question on homosexual activity. Well, having thought about it beforehand, sure enough I reacted strongly. It was just as well because the overall interview had shown me that I didn't want to work there anyway but it was still traumatic to be accused of lying and about that in particular at that time.

For a short period of time I questioned my sexuality but can say that in the intervening 51 years there has not been one moment when I considered homosexual behavior. This is not to say anything negative about homosexuality, just how one's fear of responding to a question can cause one to respond negatively even with a truthful answer.

Times were different then and my attitude was too. I doubt I'd fear the question today given that my accepting attitude toward homosexuality in general has been normalized.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#93
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By leveraging the fact that one is a UK citizen, and applying to SIS or GCHQ, I assume? Most other countries perform in-depth background checks, rather than relying on pseudo-science, when it comes to matters of national security.

The background investigations are still performed, the poly is an additional layer added on, so that's the only real formal difference between countries.

I really want to believe that polygraphs are just used as an interrogation tool and not as a substitute for the SSBI. But the FBI gave Nada Nadim Prouty an SCI clearance even though she wasn't even lawfully present in the US, let alone a citizen. She was working for CIA when the next investigation was due, and they didn't have a problem either.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#94
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and they were all caught during their polygraph interrogations right?

As I said, I believe Ames or Hanssen was, but the subject was given a pass because of his credentials.

Hanssen never took a polygraph; Ames took many and passed them all. If there's even a single spy who was caught because of the polygraph, neither the US nor any other government using them has said so.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#95
post #16

> That rules out entire professions: ... and Pharmacy. Pharmacy in the is requires a polygraph? I didn't expect that. It's not required in other Commonwealth countries as far as I know.

In the United States, the Employee Polygraph Protection act includes blanket exemptions for federal, state, and local governmental agencies, as well as exemptions for security services (such as guards who transport cash) and for those who handle or transport drugs.

And many states prohibit polygraphs for all private-sector employers.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#96

I'd always thought I was a good person. Now I wasn't sure. Laughed out loud at this part. "It wasn't until my interviewer for a position at The Torture Center questioned my unflinching loyalty to authority -- that, until now, I had been certain was absolute -- that I began to doubt if I was really a good person"

This breaks the site guidelines, both because it's ideological flamewar, and more subtly because it doesn't do this:

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize."

Can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here?

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#97

Maybe it is how it's written, but this person's entire career reads like a rat navigating through a maze built by superiors. Even though they say the job is among the happiest times of their life, it helps put into perspective the follower mentality some have, especially in the public sector. I'd have given the middle finger right away knowing I can find enjoyable work sans harassment. To put it crudely, I can't even…

What is a reasonable hoop to jump through and what is unreasonable is very subjective. Consider...on the east coast, interview suits are the norm. Even for a coding job where you will never wear a suit, it is reasonable to wonder why a candidate refused to wear a suit for an interview. West coast, though, the reverse is true. I had quite the culture shock coming from a govt job on the east coast to a Seattle coding j…

> would find routine polygraphs stressful

What I would find intolerable is the persistence of the practice despite polygraphs being bullshit. I can't work for higher-ups that I don't respect, because I'm constitutionally unable to conceal my contempt. And it would be impossible to respect higher-ups that required regular polygraphs.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#98

I was a team leader at a USSOCOM unit and had to take a poly to be read into a couple of three-letter agency programs. In the middle of the test, the smug 23 year old fresh college grad administering the thing tells me I'm being deceptive and obviously support jihadi terrorism. This as I'm getting ready to leave on my 12th deployment. I've never wanted to so violently break someone's face as right then in that moment…

> This as I'm getting ready to leave on my 12th deployment Unfortunately, people with far better credentials have been traitors and spies. Kim Philby, Aldrich Ames, and Robert Hanssen come to mind. IIRC, at least one was even given a pass on his polygraph test because of his credentials. Recently, Michael Flynn was a Lt General, head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, and National Security Advisor (to be clear, he i…

Funny you should mention Aldrich Ames. The New York Times reported that:

> Three years later, at the start of his career as a Russian mole, Aldrich Ames passed a Central Intelligence Agency lie detector test. In 1991, he passed another, even though he was on the agency's list of suspected moles and living at a level far above his $70,000 Government salary. Last summer, Dennis DeConcini, then chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, visited Mr. Ames in jail and asked how he passed the exams. "Well," Mr. Ames replied, "they don't work."

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/19/opinion/lie-detectors-lie...

He also wrote a very interesting letter about polygraph testing:

https://fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/ames.html

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#99
post #96

I'd always thought I was a good person. Now I wasn't sure. Laughed out loud at this part. "It wasn't until my interviewer for a position at The Torture Center questioned my unflinching loyalty to authority -- that, until now, I had been certain was absolute -- that I began to doubt if I was really a good person"

This breaks the site guidelines, both because it's ideological flamewar, and more subtly because it doesn't do this: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." Can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here?

Please follow this rule when reading my posts:

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize."

You've disappointed me with your disingenuous misinterpretation of my comment and I strongly suggest you no longer reply to my posts.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#100
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate it when people do this. What's the better comeback/reaction to this frame? (apparently, my verbalized fuck-off, tamed or not, is not the best approach)

"Wow, you're really bad at this!"

I don't know... It's aggressive in an explicit way. A putdown. I should have several comebacks ready and be prepared to nuke the relationship.
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