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The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

nytimes.com

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Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#121

Post by 7952 »

mcv wrote: post #110
frereubu wrote: post #94

When riding in London a few years ago I came off my bike when a car driver - who hadn't seen me - turned across the road in front of me. I slammed on my brakes, and went over the handlebars only a few inches before hitting the car. I landed on the road with my hip and my head whiplashed over into the road. If I hadn't been wearing a helmet I would undoubtedly have fractured my skull, and possible worse. Since then I'…

What kind of brakes do you have? I've got the feeling that aggressive brakes on your front wheel make it more likely for you to go over the handlebars. I've also been cut off once by a car who didn't see me while I was going very fast, but while I braked, I also made a flat turn into the street the car was turning into, and that saved my from a collision.

That is a bit of a misconception. Your front brake is much more effective at stopping the bike than the rear. People go over the handlebars because they are not gripping well enough. They are not used to the force. With a bit of practice you will never go over the handlebars with the front brake.

The rear brake is much more likely to cause a fall. When you apply the brake the bike tips forward and the rear wheel rises up. It easily looses grip and can lock up. That causes a skid and next thing you are on the ground. Or just smashed into whatever you are trying to avoid.

The front brake does not do this because the tipping forward pushes the front wheel into the ground. You get more grip and more braking potential. With a little practice you can stop the bike quickly and easily. You will never go back. But you have to grip the handlebars and tense your arms a bit to deal with the force.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#122

Post by emmelaich »

jernfrost wrote: post #58

I think the key to safety for bikers in the Netherlands is simply the sheer number of them. When you visit the Netherlands. Within 15 minutes you have gotten used to scanning for bikers everywhere. There are so many of them and they come so frequently that you cannot not get into the habit of looking for them. The importance of numbers is something often overlooked. I read an article discussing the different approach…

Indeed; 99.9% of drivers are also bicyclists.

It's awareness born of experience.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#123

Post by ygra »

7952 wrote: post #121
mcv wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of brakes do you have? I've got the feeling that aggressive brakes on your front wheel make it more likely for you to go over the handlebars. I've also been cut off once by a car who didn't see me while I was going very fast, but while I braked, I also made a flat turn into the street the car was turning into, and that saved my from a collision.

That is a bit of a misconception. Your front brake is much more effective at stopping the bike than the rear. People go over the handlebars because they are not gripping well enough. They are not used to the force. With a bit of practice you will never go over the handlebars with the front brake. The rear brake is much more likely to cause a fall. When you apply the brake the bike tips forward and the rear wheel rise…

Depending on how the bike's mass distribution looks like. If the rear isn't very heavy, braking hard on the front will flip over the bike and you. For me it's anon-issue most of the time, as I have panniers which increase the rear weight so that doesn't happen, but when I don't have them I sometimes forget to adjust braking force.

Might also not be an issue for e-bikes, as those are generally heavier and probably less likely to raise the rear wheel while braking.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#124

Post by LoSboccacc »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #86
jernfrost wrote: post #58

I think the key to safety for bikers in the Netherlands is simply the sheer number of them. When you visit the Netherlands. Within 15 minutes you have gotten used to scanning for bikers everywhere. There are so many of them and they come so frequently that you cannot not get into the habit of looking for them. The importance of numbers is something often overlooked. I read an article discussing the different approach…

Just spending enough time on a bike or motorbike will change the way you drive. Not only do you become aware of blind spots but you become a little paranoid about them. You might also learn that hitting a large metal box hurts. That transfers when the many bikers are driving a car into doing more, and better checks than a typical driver without two wheel experience.

Anecdotal at best

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#125

Post by buschkowitz »

7952 wrote: post #121
mcv wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of brakes do you have? I've got the feeling that aggressive brakes on your front wheel make it more likely for you to go over the handlebars. I've also been cut off once by a car who didn't see me while I was going very fast, but while I braked, I also made a flat turn into the street the car was turning into, and that saved my from a collision.

That is a bit of a misconception. Your front brake is much more effective at stopping the bike than the rear. People go over the handlebars because they are not gripping well enough. They are not used to the force. With a bit of practice you will never go over the handlebars with the front brake. The rear brake is much more likely to cause a fall. When you apply the brake the bike tips forward and the rear wheel rise…

Using the rear brake will not cause your rear wheel to lift up, unless you are using the front brake at the same time.

Ideally, for an emergency brake you want to use 70% front brake, 30% rear brake, get off the saddle and move your bum as far back as possible.

Safe riding everyone.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#126

Post by buschkowitz »

bamboozled wrote: post #97
frereubu wrote: post #94

When riding in London a few years ago I came off my bike when a car driver - who hadn't seen me - turned across the road in front of me. I slammed on my brakes, and went over the handlebars only a few inches before hitting the car. I landed on the road with my hip and my head whiplashed over into the road. If I hadn't been wearing a helmet I would undoubtedly have fractured my skull, and possible worse. Since then I'…

Sorry to hear about your accident. May I ask how fast were you going when this happened? I don't wear a helmet when commuting but I also rarely exceed 20km/h to avoid the exact kind of collision you just described. I have to say a helmet will help when going over the bars, but you could've just as easily been critically injured in other ways, such as breaking your neck, rupturing an artery etc. One thing you notice a…

You want to wear a helmet. The risk-reward ratio is highly in favor of wearing one. What is the burden of wearing one vs. having some protection in case you fly?

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#127

Post by 7952 »

buschkowitz wrote: post #125
7952 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a bit of a misconception. Your front brake is much more effective at stopping the bike than the rear. People go over the handlebars because they are not gripping well enough. They are not used to the force. With a bit of practice you will never go over the handlebars with the front brake. The rear brake is much more likely to cause a fall. When you apply the brake the bike tips forward and the rear wheel rise…

Using the rear brake will not cause your rear wheel to lift up, unless you are using the front brake at the same time. Ideally, for an emergency brake you want to use 70% front brake, 30% rear brake, get off the saddle and move your bum as far back as possible. Safe riding everyone.

It does though, regardless of which brake you use. I think this is because the forces are applied at the contact point on the road. It is like applying brakes to the left side of a car, it is going to turn left. The effect is less pronounced in a rear wheel because the braking is naturally limited by the tipping.

Shifting weight might help a bit, but you still need to grip.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#128

Post by 7952 »

ygra wrote: post #123
7952 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a bit of a misconception. Your front brake is much more effective at stopping the bike than the rear. People go over the handlebars because they are not gripping well enough. They are not used to the force. With a bit of practice you will never go over the handlebars with the front brake. The rear brake is much more likely to cause a fall. When you apply the brake the bike tips forward and the rear wheel rise…

Depending on how the bike's mass distribution looks like. If the rear isn't very heavy, braking hard on the front will flip over the bike and you. For me it's anon-issue most of the time, as I have panniers which increase the rear weight so that doesn't happen, but when I don't have them I sometimes forget to adjust braking force. Might also not be an issue for e-bikes, as those are generally heavier and probably les…

Perhaps. But it won't make any difference if you are not gripping properly. You still have a deceleration which your body needs to deal with.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#129

Post by Xylakant »

buschkowitz wrote: post #126
bamboozled wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear about your accident. May I ask how fast were you going when this happened? I don't wear a helmet when commuting but I also rarely exceed 20km/h to avoid the exact kind of collision you just described. I have to say a helmet will help when going over the bars, but you could've just as easily been critically injured in other ways, such as breaking your neck, rupturing an artery etc. One thing you notice a…

You want to wear a helmet. The risk-reward ratio is highly in favor of wearing one. What is the burden of wearing one vs. having some protection in case you fly?

Do you wear helmet while driving a car? What’s the burden of wearing one vs. having some protection in case you have an accident? Car drivers are much more likely to die of head injuries than cyclists. Do you also wear a helmet while walking, especially in winter? What’s the burden of wearing one vs. having some protection in case you slip and fall?

Why don’t we do that? Because while the burden is low - it’s mostly dragging the helmet around wherever you go and ruining your hardcut - the actual probability it might help is quite low. And with good infrastructure, the same is true for cycling. If you look at this years stats for causes of death for cyclists in Berlin for example, the leading cause is “crushed by a truck”.

Note: if you do cycling for sports at high speeds or rough terrain: wear a helmet.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#130

Post by NeedMoreTea »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #124
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just spending enough time on a bike or motorbike will change the way you drive. Not only do you become aware of blind spots but you become a little paranoid about them. You might also learn that hitting a large metal box hurts. That transfers when the many bikers are driving a car into doing more, and better checks than a typical driver without two wheel experience.

Anecdotal at best

Actually not: https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/why-bikers-...
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