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Apple’s repair kill switch hasn’t been activated yet

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Re: Apple’s repair kill switch hasn’t been activated yet

#21

Post by xxs »

devoply wrote: post #18
bjoli wrote: post #2

Apple is really undoubtedly the king of making their products impossible to repair. This doesn't bother me much since I have long abandoned apple. What bothers me is that everyone follows their bad example. Not only is a modern phone impossible to open, everything is glued in. Even laptops are like this. I have even seen other manufacturers stop using underfill in their phones, just like apple. Probably to make broke…

Sounds like we need more laws around manufacturing things to make them possible to repair and the prohibition of stopping 3rd party repair. Hell the EU should pass something along these lines. It's pretty much necessary at this point.

A simple scale of build quality and repairablity that must be glued on the box, similar to the energy class (at least in the EU) would be a good start.

Re: Apple’s repair kill switch hasn’t been activated yet

#22

Post by BurningFrog »

bjoli wrote: post #2

Apple is really undoubtedly the king of making their products impossible to repair. This doesn't bother me much since I have long abandoned apple. What bothers me is that everyone follows their bad example. Not only is a modern phone impossible to open, everything is glued in. Even laptops are like this. I have even seen other manufacturers stop using underfill in their phones, just like apple. Probably to make broke…

Well, if every manufacturer is doing it, there are probably good reasons for it. I doubt they've all gone mad at the same time.

Re: Apple’s repair kill switch hasn’t been activated yet

#23

Post by throwaway2048 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #22
bjoli wrote: post #2

Apple is really undoubtedly the king of making their products impossible to repair. This doesn't bother me much since I have long abandoned apple. What bothers me is that everyone follows their bad example. Not only is a modern phone impossible to open, everything is glued in. Even laptops are like this. I have even seen other manufacturers stop using underfill in their phones, just like apple. Probably to make broke…

Well, if every manufacturer is doing it, there are probably good reasons for it. I doubt they've all gone mad at the same time.

Market movements like that can often be kind of like viral internet memes, they can be really really popular, but ultimately stupid.

Popularity is not strongly correlated with "sensible and good"

Re: Apple’s repair kill switch hasn’t been activated yet

#24

Post by maxxxxx »

BurningFrog wrote: post #22
bjoli wrote: post #2

Apple is really undoubtedly the king of making their products impossible to repair. This doesn't bother me much since I have long abandoned apple. What bothers me is that everyone follows their bad example. Not only is a modern phone impossible to open, everything is glued in. Even laptops are like this. I have even seen other manufacturers stop using underfill in their phones, just like apple. Probably to make broke…

Well, if every manufacturer is doing it, there are probably good reasons for it. I doubt they've all gone mad at the same time.

The reason I can see is to make more money. I have bought a Macbook Pro with more RAM than I needed at the time only to be sure to have the RAM in case I need it later. Otherwise I would have waited and bought the RAM later. I am sure I am not alone.

With closing off everything they have more control and can cut out third party competition. It looks like they are successful with IBM's Micro Channel architecture strategy of the 80s.

Re: Apple’s repair kill switch hasn’t been activated yet

#25

Post by Coding_Cat »

BurningFrog wrote: post #22
bjoli wrote: post #2

Apple is really undoubtedly the king of making their products impossible to repair. This doesn't bother me much since I have long abandoned apple. What bothers me is that everyone follows their bad example. Not only is a modern phone impossible to open, everything is glued in. Even laptops are like this. I have even seen other manufacturers stop using underfill in their phones, just like apple. Probably to make broke…

Well, if every manufacturer is doing it, there are probably good reasons for it. I doubt they've all gone mad at the same time.

What's good for manufacturers (the bottom line) is not necessarily good for consumers (or the environment).

Re: Apple’s repair kill switch hasn’t been activated yet

#26

Post by Yetanfou »

y10 wrote: post #19
bjoli wrote: post #2

Apple is really undoubtedly the king of making their products impossible to repair. This doesn't bother me much since I have long abandoned apple. What bothers me is that everyone follows their bad example. Not only is a modern phone impossible to open, everything is glued in. Even laptops are like this. I have even seen other manufacturers stop using underfill in their phones, just like apple. Probably to make broke…

Screen glue is necessary for waterproofing but I agree with what you’re saying.

Yes, and no:

- Yes in the sense that the glass needs to be glued (or rather taped as a double-sided tape is used) to create a waterproof seal as the small size of these devices does not allow for a more traditional clamp fit using a rubber gasket.

- No because it does not have to be the main body of the device to which the glass is glued/taped. I use the Motorola Defy+ [1], an 8 year old water/dust/shockproof Android device which shows a phone can be both waterproof as well as repair-friendly: the glass is glued to a frame which in turn is attached to the phone using screws. Disassembling the device is easy and quick, all it takes is a small Torx driver and a guitar pick. Assembling it is just as easy, the result will still be waterproof as long as all the rubber gaskets are fitted. I have 5 of these devices in use for different purposes ranging from 'dangerous work phone' to trailer camera and remote-controlled media player (using MPD for Android).

In short, it is possible to create waterproof devices which can be repaired without needing to break one-time seals.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Defy

Re: Apple’s repair kill switch hasn’t been activated yet

#27

Post by sh87 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #22
bjoli wrote: post #2

Apple is really undoubtedly the king of making their products impossible to repair. This doesn't bother me much since I have long abandoned apple. What bothers me is that everyone follows their bad example. Not only is a modern phone impossible to open, everything is glued in. Even laptops are like this. I have even seen other manufacturers stop using underfill in their phones, just like apple. Probably to make broke…

Well, if every manufacturer is doing it, there are probably good reasons for it. I doubt they've all gone mad at the same time.

No removable batteries, no expandable memory, no headphone jack and now the notch. All undeniable evidence on manufacturers copying(?) Apple's choices at least in phones. As a user, I strongly feel these are not in my best interests. And I realize I am not alone in this.

Apple being the magnitude that it is now, cannot afford to make choices to attract folks like me with their 'reimagined' and 'breakthrough' innovations (?!).

This opens up an interesting segment for products that can afford to make design choices/offerings orthogonal to Apple.

Can you imagine a phone with 3000 mAh removable battery, an external memory card support for upto 128 Gb, a proper 3.5mm headphone jack and a proper rectangle screen capable of > 500ppi under 5 inches to fit your palm ? Let me sweeten the deal and price it at about $499 USD for this 'dated' tech.

Now, look around and tell me there isn't a market for this phone.

Re: Apple’s repair kill switch hasn’t been activated yet

#28

Post by xvector »

Yetanfou wrote: post #26
y10 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screen glue is necessary for waterproofing but I agree with what you’re saying.

Yes, and no: - Yes in the sense that the glass needs to be glued (or rather taped as a double-sided tape is used) to create a waterproof seal as the small size of these devices does not allow for a more traditional clamp fit using a rubber gasket. - No because it does not have to be the main body of the device to which the glass is glued/taped. I use the Motorola Defy+ [1], an 8 year old water/dust/shockproof Android…

> the glass is glued to a frame which in turn is attached to the phone using screws

I think it would be tragic if the iPhone looked like those Motorola devices. That thing looks hideous. This is strictly against Apple's design philosophy, and for good reason.

Re: Apple’s repair kill switch hasn’t been activated yet

#29

Post by xvector »

xxs wrote: post #20
petedoyle wrote: post #7

Given Apple's strong stance on privacy and not making backdoors for encryption, etc-- could they possibly be trying to prevent supply chain interdictions from the likes of the NSA? [1] Or be trying to detect things like we saw this week? [2] [1] https://techcrunch.com/2014/05/18/the-nsa-cisco-and-the-issu... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...

Yes, because taking one of their repair kits would be naught impossible? The technique has nothing to do with security.

It's pretty obvious when an iPhone X is repaired. Apple's strict stance on security means it's not impossible that this was done for security.

A kill-switch on unauthorized modifications has a massive positive impact for device security.

Re: Apple’s repair kill switch hasn’t been activated yet

#30

Post by Yetanfou »

petedoyle wrote: post #7

Given Apple's strong stance on privacy and not making backdoors for encryption, etc-- could they possibly be trying to prevent supply chain interdictions from the likes of the NSA? [1] Or be trying to detect things like we saw this week? [2] [1] https://techcrunch.com/2014/05/18/the-nsa-cisco-and-the-issu... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...

No, they're trying to make sure they get their pound of flesh any time one of 'their' devices needs to be repaired. If the NSA (et al) are really serious about having hooks into Apple products they'll make sure to get them [1], glued screens and batteries and firmware kill-switches notwithstanding.

If it were about privacy and security Apple could have the device display a warning when it detected tampering and leave it to the user how to act on this, a bit like some Android devices react when the bootloader is unlocked. They could also sell OEM spare parts which could be used by third-party repair shops to repair devices and use a verification routine to re-certify the device (which then would not display a 'tampered' warning, instead showing a 'repair log' in some hidden settings screen).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)

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