Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

motherboard.vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 455 posts

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#211

Post by tonyedgecombe »

neuronic wrote: post #204
dreamcompiler wrote: post #119

I just replaced the keyboards in two older (2011 and 2013) long out-of-warranty MacBook Pros. Both required the complete disassembly of the machine. One fix cost about $150 in parts and the other was less. If I'd been required to let Apple do the work, each machine's repair would have cost at least $500, and that assumes Apple would even have been willing to repair such old machines. Apple just gave me yet another re…

I had a 2013 Samsung ATIV Book and when the keys began to fail, I attempted to replace the keyboard. This is something that took So this isn't a problem limited to Apple, apparently most manufacturers decided that devices need to be as unfixable as possible.

More likely they decided devices needed to be as light and cheap to manufacture as possible and a by-product of that is being unfixable.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#212

Post by JamesMcMinn »

voltagex_ wrote: post #209
RileyJames wrote: post #168

When I upgraded my MacBook Air, I decided to try switching away from Apple. Primarily because the new MBP’s & Air’s were expensive, and all the new feature which made them expensive were things I didn’t want or need. I also wanted to give Linux another shot. I went for a Dell XPS, and while there are things I don’t like (primarily keyboard & trackpad) I’ve got used to them. (Keyboard still shits me). But, when the mo…

That option for on-site tech support is pretty good, but very very expensive.

In the UK at least, all XPS devices come with on-site repair included in the warranty.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#213

Post by voltagex_ »

mleonhard wrote: post #81
qaq wrote: post #52

Bought first non Apple notebook in 12 years turns out Ubuntu is fairly usable and docker performs way better than on OS X.

Which laptop did you get and which version of Linux do you run? I bought a 2015 DELL XPS 13 (9343) Developer Edition with Ubuntu. Ubuntu 16.04 has worked very poorly on it from the start. The installer crashed and I had to reinstall. Then the wifi was very slow. It would frequently lock up on resume. Hardware video decoding would occasionally crash and switch to software decoding which is choppy and eats battery powe…

It'd be interesting to see if 18.04 works better for you.

I've kinda got the opposite experience to you - I'm using the 9350 and Windows constantly BSODs due to some problem with the wifi card drivers (Broadcom). Ubuntu's working fine for me, but I'll be replacing the wifi card with an Intel one and hoping there isn't a BIOS whitelist.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#214

Post by voltagex_ »

userbinator wrote: post #82
torgian wrote: post #75

Don’t worry. The wizards in China will figure out a way around this.

Most likely by cracking the software and then distributing it amongst themselves, but eventually copies will(should?) find their way out into the larger Internet. Service software for a lot of other consumer hardware (printers, scanners, cameras, etc.) can be found online if you search hard enough.

Are you able to provide any other hints? I've got an older Sony point and shoot that's running some form of Linux (or maybe VxWorks). I'm pretty sure I can put it in debug mode with the right SCSI command.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#215

Post by praseodym »

lathiat wrote: post #147
tokyodude wrote: post #146

I'm actually a little disappointed in Apple's service considering the cost of their hardware and the cost of AppleCare. Back in the 80s and 90s many companies excellent service was you'd call customer support, they'd express ship you a replacement for free and you'd send back the broken item. They would take your credit card number just in case you didn't send the broken item back but otherwise it was on their dime.…

They generally do a better job if you have a nearby Apple Store (an official not a third party one). Unfortunately if you don't have one of those you end up a little worse off. On the plus side, most brands don't have stores in the majority of non major cities. Apple Does. So they're ahead of a lot of brands in that regards. You can get repairs usually done same day or within 1 or 2 days in the worst case if you can…

The repair experience for MacBooks (not iOS!) is abysmal, even at Apple Stores. Whereas other vendors (HP, Dell, Lenovo) will happily send you customer-replaceable parts (keyboards, disks, etc.) or a technician for on-site NBD repairs even with their standard warranty plans, Apple requires you to buy Apple Care (~10% premium) and then you still have to wait for appointments and repairs at the Genius Bar. This can easily take a week or two, and they do not provide a loaner devices so you’re without your computer for the duration of the repair. I’ve been told that there are professional Apple Care plans that do provide them, but they come at a (even higher) price.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#216

Post by tonyedgecombe »

toasterlovin wrote: post #121
jwalton wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a developer. I just bought a 2018 MBP. I seriously thought about jumping ship to Linux. If I'd known about this, I would have.

Yeah, you folks are the ones making all the noise. Meanwhile the silent majority just doesn't care at all. I haven't performed hardware repairs on a computer in more than a decade and don't plant to start any time soon.

Most customers don't care, they don't care about repairability because modern devices are so reliable, they don't care about upgradeability because they bought the appropriate spec in the first place. Even if it does fail they don't really care about the cost of repair because they bought a premium product and their expectations are set accordingly.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#217

Post by jillesvangurp »

andr wrote: post #93

The impact of this will be much bigger outside of the US, as most countries outside of North America do not have a single Apple Store. In those countries, usually there is a licensed repair provider, but the customer experience can be drastically different. In Bulgaria, I've had to wait of over 3 weeks for a simple in-warranty repair of a MacBook, like a keyboard replacement. Using unlicensed repair stores has been t…

Given how hard these things are getting to repair and how long it takes, I think you could argue that Apple should just offer to replace faulty devices with new ones.

Having a pro device out of action for more than a week is just not acceptable. If it breaks, I want to have the replacement up and running ASAP. If Apple can then repair and refurbish the original at their own leisurely pace, fine. That will also put the pressure on cutting down on repair times and cost for Apple. They seem incentivized to milk their expensive care package a bit too much currently.

Anyway, my 2017 MBP keyboard is starting to become faulty. I've been dreading having to turn it in because I actually need this thing up and running. I'm actually considering permanently switching to a linux machine and then getting it repaired. After it comes back, I'll probably sell it.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#218

Post by tonyedgecombe »

smoyer wrote: post #70
Jmcdd wrote: post #6

This is a shame and another setback for Macbooks / Macs. I'd agree with "planned obselescense" over security being the motive as the article pointed out. This will also not hurt Apple in the slightest, only their consumers who are blinded by their unwavering loyalty to the brand. Sent from my iPhone

"Sent from my iPhone" - nice! I bought my last ever Apple product, an IPad v1 and was dismayed when less than 2.5 years later it stopped receiving OS updates. Its battery still lasts 20 hours and yet bugs in the browser makes it crash on so many modern web pages. I can get an Android tablet every year for $70 if I just want something I'm going to throw away.

The iPad 1 was pretty much the worst case, if you bought just before it was discontinued then you would have got 14 months of updates.

We had one and upgraded for the reasons you mentioned, it couldn't cope with JavaScript heavy web sites. However even without the bugs I don't think it had the horsepower to handle the modern web, no amount of updates would have fixed that.

iOS 12 supports devices back to the iPhone 5s, so more than 5 years.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#219

Post by shawn »

oger wrote: post #210

This is simply a disgusting move. Guys like Louis Rossman are filling a gap in the market that Apple is not willing to offer: short turnaround repairs. Honestly, politics needs to step in. #RightToRepair

Louis Rossmann does amazing work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocF_hrr83Oc

Unfortunately, his store just caught on fire yesterday.

When it rains, it pours. Poor Louis.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#220

Post by tonyedgecombe »

gumby wrote: post #178

You know they also sell machines without the secure enclave bonded to the substrate. If you don't want that feature you can buy one of their other machines -- or someone else's. I can find plenty of reasons to dump on Apple, but I do believe their commitment to customer privacy is pretty strong (even before considering that they are a large corporation). And I say that even though I don't believe, say, their commitme…

You know they also sell machines without the secure enclave bonded to the substrate.

Not for much longer I think.

Post reply on HN