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Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

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Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#141

Post by killaken2000 »

pnw_hazor wrote: post #118
fermienrico wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion about Apple has changed recently. They're now actively promoting privacy and I am OK with trading repairability with privacy. Also, Louis Rossmann on Youtube one of the most vile, deeply corrosive personalities out there and his audience enjoys the bashing of Apple left and right. He has essentially marketed himself as Anti-Apple and his message is always "Apple is Evil".

Watching Rossmann vids is why I have given up on Apple. He points out bad engineering/manufacturing in $2000+ laptops and I agree with his insights regarding how Apple makes it seem like the customer/user is wrong to cover their bad engineering. Ala -- the antenna is fine, it's your fault you have bad reception. You are not holding the phone correctly

Blame the consumer and sell a fix. Think Different.

https://venturebeat.com/2010/06/24/steve-jobs-on-iphone-4-re...

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#142

Post by sianns »

matt4077 wrote: post #128
hobs wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"By restricting final approval of hardware replacement to a vetted subset of all humanity, you ensure that it’s vastly more difficult for the vast majority of malicious humanity." This is a foolish statement. Any bad actors with power can just add themselves to that subset of humanity - this is the same reason we dont add software special backdoors that only special sets of humanity can unlock.

Well, the FBI famously DIDN'T manage to get themselves onto your "bad actors with power" list. Sometimes I think people vastly overestimate the skills and powers of the security services... And the analogy to backdoors doesn't work, because for the user who isn't a crypto-analyst (and, tbh, even for those) this system is almost tautologically safer than not having it. It bears mentioning that security of personal com…

You must be with the nSa

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#143

Post by arnvald »

sianns wrote: post #140
andr wrote: post #93

The impact of this will be much bigger outside of the US, as most countries outside of North America do not have a single Apple Store. In those countries, usually there is a licensed repair provider, but the customer experience can be drastically different. In Bulgaria, I've had to wait of over 3 weeks for a simple in-warranty repair of a MacBook, like a keyboard replacement. Using unlicensed repair stores has been t…

"Most countries outside of North Americs don't have a single apple store" lol. Rinse out your brain.

Apple stores are in 24 countries, excluding North America that's 22. Which means that most countries don't have a single Apple Store. So not only is your comment rude and inappropriate, it's also incorrect.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#145

Post by dragonwriter »

sianns wrote: post #140
andr wrote: post #93

The impact of this will be much bigger outside of the US, as most countries outside of North America do not have a single Apple Store. In those countries, usually there is a licensed repair provider, but the customer experience can be drastically different. In Bulgaria, I've had to wait of over 3 weeks for a simple in-warranty repair of a MacBook, like a keyboard replacement. Using unlicensed repair stores has been t…

"Most countries outside of North Americs don't have a single apple store" lol. Rinse out your brain.

There are 195 countries in the world, 23 in North America.

There are 24 countries with Apple stores, 2 in North America.

So, there are 172 countries not in North America, 22 of which have at least one Apple Store.

So, “most countries outside of North America don't have a single Apple Store” is true, though it's even more true that most countries in North America don't have a single Apple store.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#146

Post by tokyodude »

I'm actually a little disappointed in Apple's service considering the cost of their hardware and the cost of AppleCare.

Back in the 80s and 90s many companies excellent service was you'd call customer support, they'd express ship you a replacement for free and you'd send back the broken item. They would take your credit card number just in case you didn't send the broken item back but otherwise it was on their dime.

I had this experience with NEC 21 inch monitors, 2 different video card companies, and Matrox hard drives as just 4 companies off the top of my head. Yes, NEC FedExed me 70lbd 21 inch monitors over night. No idea what it cost them but the monitor cost me around $2500 in 1995, certainly comparible to an MBP.

Compare to Apple, they were going to service my MacbookPro and I was without it for 2 weeks. The only reason I was able to get by is I had just bought a new Windows laptop for VR so I'd have something to use while they serviced the MBP.

It made me wonder why they couldn't do it the way those other companies did. Send me the new machine, I'll transfer my data, wipe the old machine, send it back. Even if my old machine is unusable (and therefore I can't get the data off) I'd still prefer the instance service I use to get. Just give me a new machine, factor that into the cost.

The fact that they didn't do as good a job as those other companies was disappointing.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#147

Post by lathiat »

tokyodude wrote: post #146

I'm actually a little disappointed in Apple's service considering the cost of their hardware and the cost of AppleCare. Back in the 80s and 90s many companies excellent service was you'd call customer support, they'd express ship you a replacement for free and you'd send back the broken item. They would take your credit card number just in case you didn't send the broken item back but otherwise it was on their dime.…

They generally do a better job if you have a nearby Apple Store (an official not a third party one). Unfortunately if you don't have one of those you end up a little worse off.

On the plus side, most brands don't have stores in the majority of non major cities. Apple Does. So they're ahead of a lot of brands in that regards.

You can get repairs usually done same day or within 1 or 2 days in the worst case if you can walk into an Apple Store in most cases (with some exceptions obviously) - for both iPhone and Mac.

EDIT: The comment below points out they only have stores in 22 countries. I agree in some regards that is low but I would suggest it is probably high compared to many brands for not requiring a 2 week turnaround as you had above.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#148

Post by JonathonW »

dabockster wrote: post #74

Can the T2 chip be accessed via a publicly accessible API? Or would some reverse engineering be required? Since the third party check is software based, it's theoretically possible to write a piece of software that could either overwrite the flag on the T2 chip or man-in-the-middle spoof the return value to relevant applications. EDIT: I'm also curious to find out whether it's the OS or EFI that's performing the chec…

The check in question is likely happening on the T2 itself; it's a small ARM processor (derived from the ones used in iOS devices) running its own OS (a variant of watchOS, which is itself ultimately a derivative of macOS).

Among other things, it's responsible for the early boot process; it performs firmware and OS verification and can stop the boot process if it thinks things don't look right.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#149

Post by biktor_gj »

dwaite wrote: post #71
philliphaydon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Asia you can get an iMac sad upgrade done for $10. You just supply the ssd. If you buy the disk from the shop the margin is tiny. You can get an iPhone screen repaired for peanuts. Apple quoted $190 to do it. Shop did it for $95. Speakers replaced on a MacBook Pro? $45.

On the flip side, none of those parts (the SSD, the iPhone screen, or the MacBook speaker) are the same parts as Apple uses. Third party iPhone screen replacement is generally not worth it due to shoddy warranty by the shop and noticeably worse screen quality. Where it is worth it is when you are already out of warranty and trying to extend the life of your phone. The SSD is probably closest, although Apple does have…

Unless the alternative is discarding the hardware completely.

See, it's all about pricing, not quality of the parts. Last iPhone I sent for repairs at work came back with an invoice of 340€ for a screen replacement. At work that's something we _have_ to do, we can't send the phones anywhere we want. But if it was a personal phone, if I'm out of warranty and I'm going to be billed 1/3 of the cost of the phone for a new screen, or 100€ for a refubrished part somewhere else, it would be an easy decission.

Now, if that aftermarket repair was out of the question, you start wondering if it's worth to spend 1100€ for the more basic version of the phone, or you just spend 200€ on a Xiaomi and if it breaks you still can buy 4 phones more if they break. Or maybe you buy an iPhone still, but then when it breaks you just throw it away and buy an Android phone. Maybe the first time it won't happen, but after you have spent 1500€ on a phone and something else breaks(battery? lightning connector maybe?) it comes to a point where you stop throwing money into the hole.

On the laptop side, I get what Apple is doing. It has their new flashy T2 chip with integrated Touch ID and they're trying to do the same thing they did with the iPhones and nobody is going to stop them (well, maybe in EU they force them to allow the sale of Apple Diagnostic software to 3rd parties or fine them)

They're trying to convert their computers into big iPhones and treating everyone like a child that has to be taken by the hand and told him what to do all the time. And that is my problem with Apple. I'm not worried of somebody putting a backdoor in my laptop (and if they wanted to backdoor my laptop a year ago they only had to type 'root' [enter] [enter], no need to open the case), I'm not that interesting to anybody or any agency, but I don't like to be treated like I have no rights on the things I buy, and I don't need permission from anybody to do whatever I want with whatever I paid with my money.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#150

Post by JonathonW »

toasterlovin wrote: post #125
smoyer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sent from my iPhone" - nice! I bought my last ever Apple product, an IPad v1 and was dismayed when less than 2.5 years later it stopped receiving OS updates. Its battery still lasts 20 hours and yet bugs in the browser makes it crash on so many modern web pages. I can get an Android tablet every year for $70 if I just want something I'm going to throw away.

EDIT: I misread the comment I'm replying to. Parent makes a valid point. Ignore the following. You're actually complaining that a consumer computing appliance you bought received OS updates for 6 years? And your proposed better alternative is buying a device that will probably never receive an OS update?

The last OS update the first-generation iPad received was iOS 5.1.1, released just over two years after the first-generation iPad was released.

The first-generation iPad was a bit of an odd case for software updates, though (due to insufficient RAM); every other iPad has gotten at least four or five major updates before losing support. And Apple has yet to drop support for any iPads from the iPad Air on (October 2013).

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