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Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

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Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#121

Post by toasterlovin »

jwalton wrote: post #110
jen729w wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not “blinded by [my] unwavering loyalty to the brand” but the suggestion that this sort of thing is going to send me over to Windows or Linux is ridiculous. I’m a normal guy who works in IT and does pretty much everything with my MBP. Work (Citrix, email, Office), play (Logic, Lightroom), development (Sublime, Chrome, the Terminal) ... I mean come on. For my “loyalty” to be considered “unwavering” there would hav…

I'm a developer. I just bought a 2018 MBP. I seriously thought about jumping ship to Linux. If I'd known about this, I would have.

Yeah, you folks are the ones making all the noise. Meanwhile the silent majority just doesn't care at all. I haven't performed hardware repairs on a computer in more than a decade and don't plant to start any time soon.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#122

Post by exodust »

blihp wrote: post #106
thinkling wrote: post #46

Back when end users could replace (upgrade) RAM and storage, I cared about keeping that flexibility. Now those are soldered to the motherboard and generally non-upgradeable from the start. This change affects “display assembly, logic board, top case (the keyboard, touchpad, and internal housing), and Touch ID board”. I could see wanting an alternate, after-market keyboard, but otherwise am happy to stick with Apple p…

... and anyone who likes to keep their system a good long time https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 Given the lackluster upgrade options in the last 5+ years, I can see a lot of people trying to hang on to their next/last PC as long as possible. Now they'll have no options once Apple decides their system is done.

Not to mention the limits being reached into raw processor power. Hanging on to our devices (and receiving software updates) makes a lot of sense from the user's point of view.

I find it disgusting that Apple labels my iPad 3 "vintage" and refuses to give it updates, not even browser updates or security patches. They cannot claim to be looking after this planet's interests or user interests by abandoning their hardware after only a pathetic 5 years. They need to step up and offer a solution to an e-waste problem they are creating in the first place.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#123

Post by MikeAmelung »

secabeen wrote: post #100
paavoova wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Back when end users could replace (upgrade) RAM and storage They still can, by purchasing an older laptop or newer "business class" device. A 2011 Sandy-bridge Thinkpad is perfectly usable even today, and is serviceable in most aspects from battery, SATA/PCIe slots, aftermarket display, and even the CPU on some models. > Now those are soldered to the motherboard and generally non-upgradeable from the start. Which i…

Yep. Lenovo T-series laptops are still chock full of Field Replaceable Units (FRUs). And they still publish the maintenance manual to tell you exactly how to replace them: https://ok2.de/media/ThinkPad/HMM/t480s-hmm_en.pdf

Yep, and you don't even have to worry about installing spyware because it came with it from the factory!

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#124

Post by nepeckman »

pfschell wrote: post #114

The comparison to John Deere's anti-competitive actions is flat out retarded. Every repair they list is also an attack vector against your data if your device falls into hostile hands. Show me one nation state intelligence service, border guard, or Romanian hacking syndicate that's trying to pwn a tractor.

I'm pretty sure a nation state has the resources to fake the diagnostics, and a border patrol isn't going to open the computer, just harass you for the password. This does relate to the right-to-repair movement.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#125

Post by toasterlovin »

smoyer wrote: post #70
Jmcdd wrote: post #6

This is a shame and another setback for Macbooks / Macs. I'd agree with "planned obselescense" over security being the motive as the article pointed out. This will also not hurt Apple in the slightest, only their consumers who are blinded by their unwavering loyalty to the brand. Sent from my iPhone

"Sent from my iPhone" - nice! I bought my last ever Apple product, an IPad v1 and was dismayed when less than 2.5 years later it stopped receiving OS updates. Its battery still lasts 20 hours and yet bugs in the browser makes it crash on so many modern web pages. I can get an Android tablet every year for $70 if I just want something I'm going to throw away.

EDIT: I misread the comment I'm replying to. Parent makes a valid point. Ignore the following.

You're actually complaining that a consumer computing appliance you bought received OS updates for 6 years? And your proposed better alternative is buying a device that will probably never receive an OS update?

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#126

Post by noobermin »

parrellel wrote: post #111
noobermin wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I think this is true, many people around me have macs, especially non-gamers and non-tech savvy people, so it's not that much of a niche.

It's not that it's a niche, it's that Apple's products are designed to be coveted. I'm saying uninformed people don't first buy Apple based on specs, they buy Apple because of brand recognition and 'fanciness'

I agree with you by that definition of luxury, yes.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#127

Post by toasterlovin »

hobs wrote: post #32
floatingatoll wrote: post #8

This is an excellent step for protecting MacBook Pro users against hardware invasions (such as US and China border authorities). If you trust the user to replace hardware, you permit the user’s hardware to be altered by malicious actors. By restricting final approval of hardware replacement to a vetted subset of all humanity, you ensure that it’s vastly more difficult for the vast majority of malicious humanity. Yes,…

"By restricting final approval of hardware replacement to a vetted subset of all humanity, you ensure that it’s vastly more difficult for the vast majority of malicious humanity." This is a foolish statement. Any bad actors with power can just add themselves to that subset of humanity - this is the same reason we dont add software special backdoors that only special sets of humanity can unlock.

> Any bad actors with power can just add themselves to that subset of humanity - this is the same reason we dont add software special backdoors that only special sets of humanity can unlock.

This analogy doesn't make sense.

The alternative to adding backdoors is to not add backdoors (which is safer). The alternative to restricting hardware repairs to a subset of humanity is not restricting them at all (which is more dangerous).

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#128

Post by matt4077 »

hobs wrote: post #32
floatingatoll wrote: post #8

This is an excellent step for protecting MacBook Pro users against hardware invasions (such as US and China border authorities). If you trust the user to replace hardware, you permit the user’s hardware to be altered by malicious actors. By restricting final approval of hardware replacement to a vetted subset of all humanity, you ensure that it’s vastly more difficult for the vast majority of malicious humanity. Yes,…

"By restricting final approval of hardware replacement to a vetted subset of all humanity, you ensure that it’s vastly more difficult for the vast majority of malicious humanity." This is a foolish statement. Any bad actors with power can just add themselves to that subset of humanity - this is the same reason we dont add software special backdoors that only special sets of humanity can unlock.

Well, the FBI famously DIDN'T manage to get themselves onto your "bad actors with power" list.

Sometimes I think people vastly overestimate the skills and powers of the security services...

And the analogy to backdoors doesn't work, because for the user who isn't a crypto-analyst (and, tbh, even for those) this system is almost tautologically safer than not having it.

It bears mentioning that security of personal computers has vastly improved over the last decade or so, both Windows and Mac. It's ridiculous to disparage their efforts as useless.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#129

Post by toasterlovin »

paxy wrote: post #18
floatingatoll wrote: post #8

This is an excellent step for protecting MacBook Pro users against hardware invasions (such as US and China border authorities). If you trust the user to replace hardware, you permit the user’s hardware to be altered by malicious actors. By restricting final approval of hardware replacement to a vetted subset of all humanity, you ensure that it’s vastly more difficult for the vast majority of malicious humanity. Yes,…

The number of users who simply want/need cheaper repairs and upgrades dwarfs those who are at risk of getting their hardware bugged by state-sponsored actors. And considering these laptops are made in China in the first place, any assurances of security are already moot. If security was the primary concern, Apple would sell this as a separate model variant (manufactured in the USA) and charge a lot more for it.

Apple is shipping devices which are safe from state actors intervening when the devices are manufactured. This affects who can make repairs. They are not restricting the repairs to prevent state actors from intervening when devices are being repaired.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#130

Post by matt4077 »

userbinator wrote: post #86
floatingatoll wrote: post #8

This is an excellent step for protecting MacBook Pro users against hardware invasions (such as US and China border authorities). If you trust the user to replace hardware, you permit the user’s hardware to be altered by malicious actors. By restricting final approval of hardware replacement to a vetted subset of all humanity, you ensure that it’s vastly more difficult for the vast majority of malicious humanity. Yes,…

This security improvement will make me safer If society as a whole constantly falls for the "security" argument then it won't be long before every aspect of your life is controlled by some central entity. I feel obligated to bring up that timeless quote again: "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither."

That argument is slightly lazy, in that it applies to far too many situations where it's obviously wrong... Looking both ways before crossing the street does not make my life controlled by some central entity, etc..
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