IQ Matters Less Than You Think • Hacker News Board

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#211

Post by annabellish » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

madeuptempacct wrote: post #175

annabellish wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any research backing up this position? It seems to fly in the face of every reputable study I've seen, which suggests the opposite is true - average genes, hard work, and sacrifice is not enough to "guarantee" anything.

It's common sense. I did say barring accidents and having an actual life. The below is conservative. 1. Pick practical degree, because you are poor and anything else is luxury. 2. Work in college, because you are poor. End up with 30k of debt because you are dumn and didn't get a scholarship. 3. Make 40k a year. (22% fed, let's say 4% state), 30k net. -10k rent, -10k expenses, 10k left. 4. Pay off college by 25. 5. S…

I can tell that that isn't your story, because there's a lot of conjecture in there that isn't supported by the data. Even just starting with #1, the ability to pick a degree at _all_ is a privilege not automatically afforded to everybody. Should you be able to do so, then working during college is strongly linked to worse outcomes, as you have less time to dedicate to learning - thus making #3 harder as you're competing against people who have had better chances than you. If you can't do 3, you can't do 4, 5, 6, or 7, and 8 is predicated on that.

It might be "common sense" to you, but it's directly contradicted by all the data.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#212

Post by danans » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:13 PM UTC

bjoli wrote: post #179

k__ wrote: post #10

I know a few people with >130 IQ and they all have executive disfunction and anxiety problems. So yes, the best CPU doesn't help if the IO is constantly blocked.

One of the few things we actually know for sure about iq is that it has a protective function when it comes to mental illness.

Do you have a citation for that?

On the surface it seems like an absurd statement, since IQ isn't a "thing", like for example, sickle shaped blood cells, which are protective against malaria.

It's a human devised statistical metric, which says nothing about what actually causes a particular score.

Even if there is a population wide correlation of higher IQ to better mental health, it would be heavily confounded by other huge factors affecting mental health, like income, education, health care access, family conditions during childhood. To prove this you'd have to control for at least those factors, and possibly many others.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#213

Post by annabellish » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:13 PM UTC

bpatel576 wrote: post #166

annabellish wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any research backing up this position? It seems to fly in the face of every reputable study I've seen, which suggests the opposite is true - average genes, hard work, and sacrifice is not enough to "guarantee" anything.

It seems a bit nieve to think that you need to have an above average IQ to make it into Middleclass society.

IQ is a garbage measurement that isn't predictive of future results, yes. It's more the hard work and sacrifice part I'm disagreeing with.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#214

Post by amelius » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:13 PM UTC

I'm starting to suspect that society is set up to make IQ matter less than we think.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#215

Post by taneq » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:14 PM UTC

annabellish wrote: post #154

madeuptempacct wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very much this - average genes, hard work, and sacrifice can generally guarantee upper middle class (barring accidents). Basically, all you need to get there is being a good cog in the machine. That is to say - you come in groomed, you do your job, you study or take night classes, you don't spend your money on having a life, you don't make mistakes which come with fun. Eventually, you will get to your $100,000/year a…

Do you have any research backing up this position? It seems to fly in the face of every reputable study I've seen, which suggests the opposite is true - average genes, hard work, and sacrifice is not enough to "guarantee" anything.

Nothing in life is guaranteed, but some things sure stack the deck. Average skills, hard work and a bit of ambition will greatly increase your chances of a comfortable life.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#216

Post by solarkraft » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:15 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #161

Alex888 wrote: post #92

Intelligence doesn't matter much when you have it. It matters quite a lot when you don't. Like in basketball - being 2.50m tall doesn't mean you'll beat everyone on the court. But being 1.50m pretty much guarantees you're out of luck.

> But being 1.50m pretty much guarantees you're out of luck 1.60 m, though, is apparently good enough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggsy_Bogues

Enough with - i suppose - lots of other gifts. I would assume anyone with his height is less likely to even try basketball.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#217

Post by keldaris » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:16 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #205

owens99 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly, many findings show there is not. Malcolm Gladwell explains this well in his book Outliers. https://www.honorsociety.org/articles/trouble-geniuses-malco... “Gladwell cites studies done by Arthur Jensen that indicate the IQ level needed to successfully attend and graduate from undergraduate college is 115, after which Jensen believe IQ becomes relatively unimportant. For comparison, Albert Einstein, a wel…

> He gives the example [paraphrasing from memory] of an individual with an IQ of 170 who was so intelligent it impaired his ability to relate to normal people and hold a job. High IQ doesn't do that (in fact, it makes it easier to understand other people, including those of average intelligence, if you are so inclined), though people with high IQ and a problem that does impair their social interactions may be incline…

Humans do seem to generally prefer the company of those with a sufficient degree of shared traits, interests and preferences. Being an extreme outlier in IQ, as in any other area, may just make it statistically harder to find such company.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#218

Post by aetherson » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:16 PM UTC

toasterlovin wrote: post #93

cm2187 wrote: post #89

The title is a bit misleading. The study is basically comparing the path of the top 1% to the top 2% of the IQ distribution and arguing that it doesn't matter that much in term of extraordinary achievements (nobel prize, etc). If you compare the top 20% to the bottom 20% of the distribution I bet there will be a strong correlation to professional sucess.

And there's also probably a big difference between the top 0.01% percent and the top 1%. The difference between the top 1% and top 2% isn't very important for most types of talent. Being in one of those categories for athletic talent, for instance, wouldn't get you into a professional sports league of any kind.

There may be a big difference between the top 0.01% of g and the top 1% of g (or there may not). But IQ is only a loss abstraction of g, and it almost certainly lacks the resolution to say how top 1% of IQ and top 0.01% of IQ actually correlate with g.

(In contrast, you can be relatively certain that someone in the top 1% of IQ has a higher g than someone with bottom 50% of IQ).

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#219

Post by thoughtexplorer » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

yhoneycomb wrote: post #9

melling wrote: post #7

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” ― Calvin Coolidge

Depends in what field. Being persistent will never give you the facial features to become a male model.

Being persistent while 3 feet tall will never get you into the NBA. So you find something else to be persistent with.

Conversely, being 7 feet tall isn't enough on its own. You still need persistence to get into the NBA.

Those born with the right skull shape still need persistence and discipline with diet and exercise to make it as a model.

Persistence is still critical to rise above the crowd with most things.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#220

Post by taneq » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

madeuptempacct wrote: post #208

ummonk wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be assuming there isn’t any genetic component to hard work.

Willpower can be trained: https://www.apa.org/helpcenter/willpower.aspx

But what if I can't be bothered?

(Seriously. Training willpower takes willpower. If someone has some kind of executive disfunction or something, they literally can't 'just choose the right thing'.)