Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#191

Post by chapekaloco » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 8:23 AM UTC

Hi, I work at an Amazon warehouse in Pennsylvania. I agree with one of Amazon's sentiments regarding these changes - that it's better to get more direct pay than to "hope" for a bonus" However, the nature of our VCP (variable compensation pay) bonus is such that half of it is actually completely and fully within an individual's control. Half of the VCP bonus is given based on our own personal attendance. If we use personal time or approved vacation time that's all fine and dandy, but using something called "Unapproved Time Off" (UPT) is what will end up lowering or negating our monthly VCP bonus for attendance. The other half of VCP is granted based on building productivity. So yes, that's largely out of control by the individual. But it also provided actual incentive for us to do well. Now we don't really have any incentive to do anything more than the bare minimum. In any case, the personal attendance thing is completely within an individual's control and is not just mere "hope" for a bonus.

VCP is up to 4% for attendance and 4% for building productivity normally. But during Oct-Dec (peak season) these figures double to 8% each. If you average together the 4% attendance VCP (totally within our control) for 9 months and 8% for 3 months, you get a yearly average of 5% bonus, totally within our control.

I was earning $15/hr prior to this "wage boost". A 5% bonus on top of that would make my effective wage $15.75. This is without receiving any VCP bonus in regard to building productivity. This is also before you consider any "income" we were receiving through stocks. After the wage boost, my hourly wage is becoming $16hr. But I will never be able to increase that through VCP and I will never receive company stock again.

I am glad that employees across the country who were previously at $11/hr and that new starts at my warehouse are jumping from the starting $12-$13 immediately to $15, but it's hard for existing employees such as myself to see these changes as anything but a pay cut.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#192

Post by TangoTrotFox » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 8:24 AM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #68

sethammons wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A company doesn't become adversarial with its workforce because of unions; a company is forced to treat its workforce more as an equal because of unions. I'm not convinced. My brother's work has a warehouse. The warehouse unionized (a large push by two folks who are no longer there). Most of the warehouse workers are now making _less_ than they were before due to union dues. There are guys that my brother would lov…

So who's running the union? Some measure of nonsensicality exists here in the idea of a union composed entirely of warehouse workers that is somehow magically acting against the best interests of those warehouse workers.

Consider politics. We, citizens, elect other citizens to represent us in office. Is it nonsensical to then suggest that these citizens we voluntarily choose to elect are not acting in the best interests of those that put them into office? The problem is a typical one. The vast majority of people are motivated by their own intimate interests. Elevate them to power and that not only becomes even more true, but their interests also change.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#193

Post by jfnixon » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 8:28 AM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #167

DannyBee wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, are you suggesting there should be no pay differentiation for performance at all?

No, I'm suggesting that management and the union seem to disagree on who exactly has the higher performance in this situation.

No, you aren’t arguing the union has a different idea who has higher performance. You are arguing the case that everyone should be paid more regardless of performance.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#194

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 8:36 AM UTC

chapekaloco wrote: post #191

Hi, I work at an Amazon warehouse in Pennsylvania. I agree with one of Amazon's sentiments regarding these changes - that it's better to get more direct pay than to "hope" for a bonus" However, the nature of our VCP (variable compensation pay) bonus is such that half of it is actually completely and fully within an individual's control. Half of the VCP bonus is given based on our own personal attendance. If we use pe…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#195

Post by ioulian » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 9:07 AM UTC

chapekaloco wrote: post #191

Hi, I work at an Amazon warehouse in Pennsylvania. I agree with one of Amazon's sentiments regarding these changes - that it's better to get more direct pay than to "hope" for a bonus" However, the nature of our VCP (variable compensation pay) bonus is such that half of it is actually completely and fully within an individual's control. Half of the VCP bonus is given based on our own personal attendance. If we use pe…

Slightly off topic, but I'm from Europe, and when you are saying "you get $15 an hour", do you include taxes or not and how much taxes do you have there?

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#196

Post by concerned_user » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 9:12 AM UTC

ioulian wrote: post #195

chapekaloco wrote: post #191

Hi, I work at an Amazon warehouse in Pennsylvania. I agree with one of Amazon's sentiments regarding these changes - that it's better to get more direct pay than to "hope" for a bonus" However, the nature of our VCP (variable compensation pay) bonus is such that half of it is actually completely and fully within an individual's control. Half of the VCP bonus is given based on our own personal attendance. If we use pe…

Slightly off topic, but I'm from Europe, and when you are saying "you get $15 an hour", do you include taxes or not and how much taxes do you have there?

From Europe too, they have progressive system same as we do, if you earn below certain threshold you pay no taxes, and amount specified $15/hr is before tax. Someone from US can probably elaborate on the exact numbers where you start paying the tax, as far as I know it depends if you have children etc.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#197

Post by hef19898 » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 9:37 AM UTC

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #188

hef19898 wrote: post #181

SO, that explains the business case behind the pay raise just fine. Reducing the $ 4.2 billion stock based compensation (2017 figures) and giving the blue collor workers an added sense of stability. In Germany, one of the main complaints used by Unions was that RSUs and bonuses are not what workers want. So both problems solved, kind of.

I thought the main complaint is that Amazon regards it's warehouse staff categorized as logistics, while the unions want them categorized as (higher paid) retail.

The underlying reason for this are salary levels. In Germany Retail agreements are higher paid (and almost dead, another reason why unions want them). In France it's the contrary, so Amazon put warhouse worker in the logistics category.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#198

Post by mabbo » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 9:57 AM UTC

ioulian wrote: post #195

chapekaloco wrote: post #191

Hi, I work at an Amazon warehouse in Pennsylvania. I agree with one of Amazon's sentiments regarding these changes - that it's better to get more direct pay than to "hope" for a bonus" However, the nature of our VCP (variable compensation pay) bonus is such that half of it is actually completely and fully within an individual's control. Half of the VCP bonus is given based on our own personal attendance. If we use pe…

Slightly off topic, but I'm from Europe, and when you are saying "you get $15 an hour", do you include taxes or not and how much taxes do you have there?

Presuming the previous lives in Allentown PA (ABE2 fulfillment center?), and presuming 2000 hours of work per year at $16/hour ($32,000/year), the tax calculator I found online says that taxes and social security add up to around $5222. $500 less under the tax changes Trump passed for next year.

So after taxes around $13.40 to $13.70 per hour.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#199

Post by anon49124 » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 10:00 AM UTC

concerned_user wrote: post #196

ioulian wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly off topic, but I'm from Europe, and when you are saying "you get $15 an hour", do you include taxes or not and how much taxes do you have there?

From Europe too, they have progressive system same as we do, if you earn below certain threshold you pay no taxes, and amount specified $15/hr is before tax. Someone from US can probably elaborate on the exact numbers where you start paying the tax, as far as I know it depends if you have children etc.

Yes, hourly earning in the US is customarily gross earning (before taxes).

The median rule of hourly earnings to yearly earnings is 40 hours/week and 50 weeks/year, which results in every $1/hour == $2000/year in earnings.

For $15/hour, that's about $30,000. For a single person in California, without dependents and claiming themselves for one exemption, it would be 4,264.50 (14.22%) in Federal taxes and 579.35 (1.93%) in State taxes for a total of 4,843.85 (16.15%) in taxes.

Calculator: https://www.tax-brackets.org/californiataxtable

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#200

Post by compcoffee » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 11:16 AM UTC

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #130

dantheman wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public sector unions are notoriously bad.

For real or according to anti-union propaganda?

>For real or according to anti-union propaganda?

For real. Unlike private sector unions, the people that the unions ares negotiating against are politicians, who have no real incentive to push back. "I'll grant your raises, you vote me back in, then I can grant more raises". The incentives are messed up.