Presidential Alerts • Hacker News Board

Re: Presidential Alerts

#81

Post by bliblah » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 7:10 PM UTC

mortenjorck wrote: post #27

I still don’t understand the actual point of this, beyond the optics of a vaguely-defined “emergency preparedness.” Emergencies are inherently local. Even if smartphones had been widespread in 2001 and the presidential alert system had been active on 9/11, what purpose would a nationwide alert have served?

The most obvious example is the Hawaii Nuclear Scare that just happened in January [1]. Obviously it was a false alarm but I would like (or should I say dread) to be alerted of a crisis of that magnitude the moment it occurs.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Hawaii_false_missile_aler...

Re: Presidential Alerts

#82

Post by noncoml » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 7:11 PM UTC

spookthesunset wrote: post #75

antsar wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't own air raid sirens, and you can't stop others from installing them. You do own your phone (in theory, at least). You should have full authority over what that phone does or doesn't do.

With all due respect, this seems like a pretty lame hill to die on. Consider the potential harm that might come from allowing people who don't fully understand what the implications are of opting out of a "presidential alert". In theory, this feature is only supposted to be used for the worst of the worst situations and if poeple disable it.... bad things might happen. Consider if a whole bunch of people are supposed…

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Re: Presidential Alerts

#83

Post by antsar » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

spookthesunset wrote: post #75

antsar wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't own air raid sirens, and you can't stop others from installing them. You do own your phone (in theory, at least). You should have full authority over what that phone does or doesn't do.

With all due respect, this seems like a pretty lame hill to die on. Consider the potential harm that might come from allowing people who don't fully understand what the implications are of opting out of a "presidential alert". In theory, this feature is only supposted to be used for the worst of the worst situations and if poeple disable it.... bad things might happen. Consider if a whole bunch of people are supposed…

You make a good point about endangering rescue workers. That complicates things.

Maybe those who disable such an alert should be exposed to liability for harm brought to others as a result of their choice? I realize that doesn't help the hypothetical dead rescue worker, but it's more of a middle ground between personal freedom and minimizing harm.

Re: Presidential Alerts

#84

Post by tlrobinson » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

tlb wrote: post #37

My iPhone X with iOS 12 made the siren noise, but no message appeared on the screen and I can't find any alert message in the notifications page, messages, or elsewhere. So I only got 1 bit of information :-(.

> So I only got 1 bit of information

Be careful. That's basically how the family in the movie "Blast from the Past" ended up locked in their bunker for a few decades.

Re: Presidential Alerts

#85

Post by amysox » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

daeken wrote: post #16

The moment I saw this pop up on my screen, all I could think of was the destruction one could cause via fake alerts. For instance, a warning of incoming nuclear warheads like what happened in Hawaii a few months ago. Sure, news stations might rapidly debunk it, but how many people wouldn't see it? Cell towers would be overloaded with calls and data, preventing the dissemination of info to many. Radio would be the bes…

FEMA has established that two officials have to sign off on the alert text before it goes out. This is to avoid the situation we got in Hawaii.

Re: Presidential Alerts

#86

Post by Scryptonite » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #32

"Presidential Alerts" is a terrible name in a time where presidents from either party tend to have about 40% approval or less. The name just automatically angers a significant portion of the population, no matter who the president happens to be. Considering that the presidency is a political position, it's not unreasonable to expect "Presidential Alerts" to be of a political nature, even though that is not how the sy…

> The name just automatically angers a significant portion of the population, no matter who the president happens to be.

I think that pretty much speaks to how shamefully bad politics has gotten here in the US. I see a couple of comments that jump to speculate that it could be used as a tool of politics, or that they would rather opt-out of knowing about an imminent threat to themselves and/or their fellow American's lives. I think it's selfish, considering smoke and CO2 detectors can't warn you of nuclear attacks. If an office of the state was responsible for calling out a fire in the building, I would want every chance to be informed, regardless of whether or not they were my prefered elected official. Obviously, if the system was abused I would want it to be fixed.

Re: Presidential Alerts

#87

Post by mikestew » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #64

mikestew wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess some folks weren't watching the news Some folks tend to do that at work, yes.

You know darn well I mean heard about it ahead of time.

This native English speaker honestly parsed it twice, and that's what I came up with. I don't watch TV news, though, so it didn't occur to me until now that people get and watch TV before work. I just go to work.

Re: Presidential Alerts

#88

Post by oh_sigh » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 7:21 PM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #32

"Presidential Alerts" is a terrible name in a time where presidents from either party tend to have about 40% approval or less. The name just automatically angers a significant portion of the population, no matter who the president happens to be. Considering that the presidency is a political position, it's not unreasonable to expect "Presidential Alerts" to be of a political nature, even though that is not how the sy…

Specific presidents generally have low approval rating, but the idea of the office of the president has a high approval rating(which is why people care so much that their person gets put there).

Re: Presidential Alerts

#89

Post by drivingmenuts » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

amysox wrote: post #85

daeken wrote: post #16

The moment I saw this pop up on my screen, all I could think of was the destruction one could cause via fake alerts. For instance, a warning of incoming nuclear warheads like what happened in Hawaii a few months ago. Sure, news stations might rapidly debunk it, but how many people wouldn't see it? Cell towers would be overloaded with calls and data, preventing the dissemination of info to many. Radio would be the bes…

FEMA has established that two officials have to sign off on the alert text before it goes out. This is to avoid the situation we got in Hawaii.

Political appointees or non-political employees?

Re: Presidential Alerts

#90

Post by oh_sigh » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 7:23 PM UTC

antsar wrote: post #65

sxates wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you opting out of the air raid sirens?

You don't own air raid sirens, and you can't stop others from installing them. You do own your phone (in theory, at least). You should have full authority over what that phone does or doesn't do.

You're free to disable the alerts by installing a custom OS on your phone where you have disabled the feature.

Your argument makes it sound like, say, Google owes you infinitely customizable software if they are going to provide any software at all, when they have no such obligation - just like you have no obligation to buy their phone, or use their software.