Bill to ban bots impersonating people for telemarketing and influencing election • Hacker News Board

Re: Bill to ban bots impersonating people for telemarketing and influencing election

#21

Post by earbrazier » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 10:52 AM UTC

sprokolopolis wrote: post #10

I like the idea of this, but I wonder if it will have much impact on the worst offenders. The most frequent and annoying calls are almost always using spoofed numbers and many times originating from outside the country, like India. Is there any way that this law could be enforced... 1)on calls originating outside the state or country? 2) on calls over spoofed numbers?

No, not this law, because (contrary to the current HN title) it does not apply to telephone calls. Its scope is "any public-facing Internet Web site, Web application, or digital application, including a social network or publication".

Re: Bill to ban bots impersonating people for telemarketing and influencing election

#22

Post by provolone » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 10:54 AM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #11

I hate telemarketing, election influencing and political social network bots impersonating people altogether so it sounds great but doesn't this probably mean it is going to become illegal to build a chatbot, give it a human name and a [legally acquired] human face avatar? Will it actually affect telemarketing/political bots only?

The goal is not to make it illegal, just inaccessible for entities without an army of lawyers. AKA regulatory capture.

Re: Bill to ban bots impersonating people for telemarketing and influencing election

#23

Post by earbrazier » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 10:56 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #2

I'm all for this...but can we just ban telemarketing entirely? Why is that even allowed? I've always thought that the law should be written such that telemarketing is legal, but if you engage in it, it is no longer illegal to murder you. You can do it, but you lose your murder protection.

I've heard that robocalls are illegal in Germany. It would be difficult to pass a law banning them in the United States because the people writing the laws are themselves heavy users of robocalls as a part of their election campaigns.

Re: Bill to ban bots impersonating people for telemarketing and influencing election

#24

Post by puranjay » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 10:57 AM UTC

provolone wrote: post #20

If people are so easily swayed then perhaps they are just idiots? There are some cold & hard facts advocates of democracy need to look at. These problems can't be legislatively swept under the rug.

The people who developed democracy never accounted for the weapons grade marketing and persuasion we are capable of today.

Re: Bill to ban bots impersonating people for telemarketing and influencing election

#25

Post by petepete » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 11:06 AM UTC

earbrazier wrote: post #23

darawk wrote: post #2

I'm all for this...but can we just ban telemarketing entirely? Why is that even allowed? I've always thought that the law should be written such that telemarketing is legal, but if you engage in it, it is no longer illegal to murder you. You can do it, but you lose your murder protection.

I've heard that robocalls are illegal in Germany. It would be difficult to pass a law banning them in the United States because the people writing the laws are themselves heavy users of robocalls as a part of their election campaigns.

They are illegal in the UK too, but the law doesn't stop calls coming in from abroad or from marketing companies routing through throwaway UK SIP providers.

I'd just like to see phone companies made to have a free option where customers can turn off all calls from unidentifiable/withheld numbers. That would be easy to implement and stop a lot of the problem.

Re: Bill to ban bots impersonating people for telemarketing and influencing election

#26

Post by sbarker » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 11:12 AM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #24

provolone wrote: post #20

If people are so easily swayed then perhaps they are just idiots? There are some cold & hard facts advocates of democracy need to look at. These problems can't be legislatively swept under the rug.

The people who developed democracy never accounted for the weapons grade marketing and persuasion we are capable of today.

They never accounted for flat earthers, but no amount persuasion or marketing is going to change my mind. Stupid is as stupid does.

Re: Bill to ban bots impersonating people for telemarketing and influencing election

#27

Post by ekianjo » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 11:18 AM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #24

provolone wrote: post #20

If people are so easily swayed then perhaps they are just idiots? There are some cold & hard facts advocates of democracy need to look at. These problems can't be legislatively swept under the rug.

The people who developed democracy never accounted for the weapons grade marketing and persuasion we are capable of today.

What do you mean? Eloquence and persuasive methods have existed at least since Antiquity (just look at the records of Plato in Greece). What it takes to believe any kind of BS is just the absence of critical thinking. This is the real root cause.

Re: Bill to ban bots impersonating people for telemarketing and influencing election

#28

Post by carbocation » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 11:21 AM UTC

I'm looking forward to the day when it's socially acceptable to simply not have a phone number. I think we're close.

Re: Bill to ban bots impersonating people for telemarketing and influencing election

#29

Post by maxerickson » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 11:21 AM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #16

BTW I have always wondered why do only the major political parties and their allies ever use bots for political influence. Obviously, real geeks could do much better at this if they would want and there probably are many gray/black hat hackers that would probably not hesitate for just moral/legal reasons but there still seems to be no bots that would try to influence something like the votes on net neutrality, ACTA/S…

Why do you think that "real geeks" aren't involved in existing influence campaigns?

Re: Bill to ban bots impersonating people for telemarketing and influencing election

#30

Post by giancarlostoro » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 11:22 AM UTC

petepete wrote: post #25

earbrazier wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that robocalls are illegal in Germany. It would be difficult to pass a law banning them in the United States because the people writing the laws are themselves heavy users of robocalls as a part of their election campaigns.

They are illegal in the UK too, but the law doesn't stop calls coming in from abroad or from marketing companies routing through throwaway UK SIP providers. I'd just like to see phone companies made to have a free option where customers can turn off all calls from unidentifiable/withheld numbers. That would be easy to implement and stop a lot of the problem.

I never answer a call if the number is not saved on my phone. If it's truly important leave a voicemail, I will get back to you if I have to.