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Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

nytimes.com

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Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#111

Post by dnautics »

unethical_ban wrote: post #34
kirillzubovsky wrote: post #8

These articles about Elon are interesting to me because Tesla could not have become such a valuable car company in such a short time if it wasn't for Elon, and that includes his personality. Yet, many couch investors would prefer to have a CEO who is stable, boring and predictable. People want to put their money in for steady long-term returns, and not worry. Tesla is doing wild things which are causing crazy growth,…

I can want a risk taking, belligerent CEO with huge expectations that demand results. I can also want that same person not to make unfounded, potentially illegal, and highly monitored claims regarding the company's trading status that could land them in court. And not insult rescuers as pedophiles, etc. Basically, what chipotle_coyote said.

You can want these things but the world does not have to deliver for you. A institutionalized version of that mentality is exactly the problem; organizations like the SEC fundamentally exist because 'someone has to protect' people's ability to inflation-proof their nest-egg. People should not question why their nest-egg should have to be made inflation-proof in the first place.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#112

Post by cm2187 »

kjksf wrote: post #107
redthrowaway wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember Steve Jobs calling random people pedophiles or committing a little light securities fraud while high. Elon brings incredible value to his companies. He also brings incredible risk. The error his fans make is in assuming the two are inseparable--that you can't have the space visionary without the libel, or the automotive and energy revolutionary without the fraud. I think this is a mistake. You could…

Steve Jobs stole $5k from his best friend Steve Wozniak https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/steve-wozniak-cried-jobs-kept-atar... He denied, for many years, that he was a father of his daughter and, while a millionaire, didn't support his daughter or her mother financially. He was investigated by SEC for, wait for it, securities fraud (stock options backdating including his 7.5 million stock options). He wasn't charged. His CF…

I’d also mention creating a cartel with other tech companies to keep wages down.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#113

Post by cm2187 »

r00fus wrote: post #70
apatters wrote: post #39

If the fine is intended to be punitive or act as a deterrent, it surely fails. Musk's net worth is over $20B, so a $20M fine is It's a joke really, most Americans are lucky to even have a positive net worth. A traffic ticket hurts your average American much more than this fine hurts Musk and he committed a much larger crime than parking in the wrong spot.

The fine is to be repaid to the short sellers (the ones he tried to punk by claiming the privatization deal was done). That must be particularly galling to Musk.

I thought it was a fine, not damages. Fines typically go to the SEC.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#114

Post by dayaz36 »

JoshCole wrote: post #100

It's so creepy that there is a Twitter account out there which has publicly confessed to be intentionally spreading hostile news for the purpose of feeding confirmation bias as a social media experiment and that the stories they are pushing are turning out to manipulate the news cycle to the extent that it does. It's actually disgusting, how successful they are. The entire movement is so suspect when you look at its…

It's not just twitter it's every sm platform including hn. All the anti-musk/tesla rhetoric gets upvoted to the top even when it's blatant misinformation and right wing propaganda talking points. That's why I take all these comments with a grain of salt. I doubt all these are legit comments. There could be one person with dozens of accounts, it's not difficult to use a vpn to cover your tracks

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#115

Post by dnautics »

alphabettsy wrote: post #21

This makes no sense to me. If the reporting is correct he screwed up by sending the Tweet without having an actual deal or planning in place. I’m hugely inspired by the guy and think he’s brilliant to the point of being a bit of a fanboy, but I also think everyone should have to follow the law and play by the rules even if they are brilliant.

> I also think everyone should have to follow the law and play by the rules even if they are brilliant.

Would you say that "everyone should have to follow the law" as justification for the police choke-holding and killing a person selling loosies (loose cigarettes) on the corner?

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#116

Post by cm2187 »

adventured wrote: post #62
kilburn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These net worth figures don't take into account the differences in social models. The average German has been paying more taxes for their entire life. In exchange, their net worth won't be affected if they get cancer, they will get help if they go broke, etc. Comparing net worth figures directly doesn't sound fair to me given these differences...

Your premise doesn't explain why France - which has a far more expensive welfare state than Germany - has a median net worth roughly three times that of Germany and Sweden. Or why Belgium is nearly 4x that of Germany. Or why Italy is 3x that of Germany. And so on. It's very clearly a problem that specifically has to do with Germany. Even South Korea, which has only started to become affluent in the last two decades,…

I think for France it has to do with real estate. French people like to own their property while it is much less common in Germany. As property prices have skyrocketed (to the point of becoming a social problem), lots of people are asset rich without necessarily having the corresponding revenues.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#117

Post by erikb »

throwaway_1138 wrote: post #94

Elon Musk is not crazy or some super genius calculating 20 steps ahead of everyone else - he is simply a man who does not like being pushed around and being told what to do. I'm no psychologist, but having read his biography and having dealt with many adults who were bullied as kids, it makes perfect sense from my experience as to why he is reacting the way he's reacting. I suspect that the perception (be it real or…

Yes, that's what most people think at this point. If you look at pictures of his mother you also know who bullied him as a kid (and maybe even today).

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#118

Post by miemo »

tbabb wrote: post #55
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to push back against this narrative, because it seems a lot of the "let Elon be Elon" arguments are neatly encapsulated in this line: Tesla is doing wild things which are causing crazy growth, but also crazy panic. But the critics of Musk's behavior would respond, I think correctly, that there is a categorical difference between "wild things which cause crazy panic because they are high risk with high upsid…

I have a hard time seeing arguments against the SEC taking action-- especially here-- as anything but overcomplicated rationalizations rooted in a personal adoration of Elon Musk. Basically, "I like Elon Musk and so I don't want anything bad to happen to him." But (a) laws don't work like that (b) selectively enforcing rules (especially those designed to prevent fraud and deception) isn't justice or ethics, and (c) h…

This reminds me of the heart surgeon student who avoided jail time for attacking her partner with a knife because she 'showed potential'.

People are perhaps sympathetic to Elon because he shows more potential than other CEOs, no? Did the judge in the case above show leniency because 'he liked her'?

For b) rather than selectively enforcing rules, this would be an example of discretionary punishment, which is absolutely a part of justice and ethics, as in the case above. Some could interpret your argument to support mandatory minimum sentencing, which many don't believe works.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#120

Post by tajen »

r00fus wrote: post #69
cperciva wrote: post #24

Is Elon Musk really an asset that Tesla needs to hold onto? I'll admit that he's a great salesman; but he's also a spoiled child who throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. If Tesla wants to be taken seriously as a car company -- rather than as a maker of toys for people who have too much money on their hands -- they might well be better off calling his bluff.

Musk sure sounds a lot like a younger Steve Jobs. Maybe he needs to leave then come back?

Let me imagine the same story as Apple:

Musk is fired by his own board, sells his stock, goes to create a 3D music company, Tesla falls in dismay, BMW takes ownership of the electric car market and is under monopoly action, to the point that BMW has to invest $150m in Tesla to prevent competition from falling, Tesla board implores Musk to come back, Musk buys all his stock back for A SINGLE DOLLAR (good job Steve), and entirely transforms the electric car market by conflating 3 products in one: a music device, an electric car device, and a planet, named the tPod, and in the end Musk is king of the world and makes billions.

Wait, he’s already king of the world.

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