Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#51

Post by adventured » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:45 AM UTC

apatters wrote: post #39

If the fine is intended to be punitive or act as a deterrent, it surely fails. Musk's net worth is over $20B, so a $20M fine is It's a joke really, most Americans are lucky to even have a positive net worth. A traffic ticket hurts your average American much more than this fine hurts Musk and he committed a much larger crime than parking in the wrong spot.

> most Americans are lucky to even have a positive net worth

The median American has a positive net worth of around $55,000. That's higher than Germany or Sweden, and just below Finland.

> A traffic ticket hurts your average American much more than this

The average American has a positive net worth of over $300,000 and represents the fourth richest average of any nationality. As such, the average American would shrug off a parking ticket every bit as much as Musk would shrug off a $20m fine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#52

Post by legulere » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:46 AM UTC

starbugs wrote: post #48

Musk is just a human like everyone else after all. You know like having emotions, making mistakes and stuff. How would you act if you'd come that far and then find yourself threatened by a horde of wild short-sellers and then the SEC? Even though his behavior isn't rational, it's understandable to a certain degree. What exactly does short-selling Tesla stock contribute to our well-being as a society? Even though I th…

He’s on an ego-trip and he’s out of control. Just to refresh your mind, he recently publicly accused someone of being a pedophile for criticizing some of his activities.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#53

Post by cm2187 » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:47 AM UTC

apatters wrote: post #39

If the fine is intended to be punitive or act as a deterrent, it surely fails. Musk's net worth is over $20B, so a $20M fine is It's a joke really, most Americans are lucky to even have a positive net worth. A traffic ticket hurts your average American much more than this fine hurts Musk and he committed a much larger crime than parking in the wrong spot.

Plus anyone else would face a criminal investigation for attempting to manipulate the market to squeeze short sellers.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#54

Post by bogomipz » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:48 AM UTC

>"Mr. Musk threatened to resign on the spot if the board insisted that he and the company enter into the settlement. Not only that, he demanded the board publicly extol his integrity."

This sounds as though the board is there to serve CEO. Isn't the purpose of the board to make sure the CEO is accountable to shareholders? Is the board just there to satisfy regulatory compliance? What am I missing?

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#55

Post by tbabb » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:48 AM UTC

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #26

kirillzubovsky wrote: post #8

These articles about Elon are interesting to me because Tesla could not have become such a valuable car company in such a short time if it wasn't for Elon, and that includes his personality. Yet, many couch investors would prefer to have a CEO who is stable, boring and predictable. People want to put their money in for steady long-term returns, and not worry. Tesla is doing wild things which are causing crazy growth,…

I'm going to push back against this narrative, because it seems a lot of the "let Elon be Elon" arguments are neatly encapsulated in this line: Tesla is doing wild things which are causing crazy growth, but also crazy panic. But the critics of Musk's behavior would respond, I think correctly, that there is a categorical difference between "wild things which cause crazy panic because they are high risk with high upsid…

I have a hard time seeing arguments against the SEC taking action-- especially here-- as anything but overcomplicated rationalizations rooted in a personal adoration of Elon Musk. Basically, "I like Elon Musk and so I don't want anything bad to happen to him."

But (a) laws don't work like that (b) selectively enforcing rules (especially those designed to prevent fraud and deception) isn't justice or ethics, and (c) he genuinely did something wrong-- multiple things wrong. He deserves to face adverse consequences for those choices.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#56

Post by paulsutter » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:48 AM UTC

He approached it perfectly. I mean seriously, what’s the worst that could happen? He leaves and the company sells out to Apple? Sure, progress would slow but Apple wouldn’t bungle it.

Meanwhile he would get to focus on the weightier innovation at SpaceX and The Boring Company (disclaimer, am a SpaceX shareholder and secretly this is exactly what I want)

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#57

Post by kilburn » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:51 AM UTC

adventured wrote: post #51

apatters wrote: post #39

If the fine is intended to be punitive or act as a deterrent, it surely fails. Musk's net worth is over $20B, so a $20M fine is It's a joke really, most Americans are lucky to even have a positive net worth. A traffic ticket hurts your average American much more than this fine hurts Musk and he committed a much larger crime than parking in the wrong spot.

> most Americans are lucky to even have a positive net worth The median American has a positive net worth of around $55,000. That's higher than Germany or Sweden, and just below Finland. > A traffic ticket hurts your average American much more than this The average American has a positive net worth of over $300,000 and represents the fourth richest average of any nationality. As such, the average American would shrug…

These net worth figures don't take into account the differences in social models. The average German has been paying more taxes for their entire life. In exchange, their net worth won't be affected if they get cancer, they will get help if they go broke, etc. Comparing net worth figures directly doesn't sound fair to me given these differences...

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#58

Post by dragosmocrii » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:51 AM UTC

dragosmocrii wrote: post #35

Personally, I think Elon Musk wants out of Tesla. The things he did lately, all point to this conclusion. Maybe he lost vision or interest in the company, but leaving from his own will would jeopardize the future of the company, since most of Tesla's backers are fans of him. Arranging himself an exit in this way, would make it look as he's the victim left with no choice but leave.

Continuing my original thought.

This guy has been married to this company and it's what brought him the fame he has today. Surely, he was successful before starting Tesla, but at least from how I started to know about him, it's as Tesla's CEO.I can only imagine that subconsciously he feels very connected to the company.

I've deliberately used "married to Tesla" because i wanted to make an analogy here. I know very well that some people can start acting very weird in a relationship if they don't feel committed anymore, but at the same time do not have the courage to have a clean exit. They would make all kind of stupid shit to make the perfect scenario to arrange an exit where they would be victimized and their ego would take minimum damage. In my opinion, Musk's personality matches the aforementioned type very well.

Again, this is just my personal opinion, and food for thought, as someone's reply. Time will tell.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#59

Post by jonathankoren » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:51 AM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #32

alphabettsy wrote: post #21

This makes no sense to me. If the reporting is correct he screwed up by sending the Tweet without having an actual deal or planning in place. I’m hugely inspired by the guy and think he’s brilliant to the point of being a bit of a fanboy, but I also think everyone should have to follow the law and play by the rules even if they are brilliant.

He had planned it including a communication to the board. he had talked to at least 1 investor plus himself so felt he could round up the funding. His other company has overcome the shareholder limit. He said he was “considering” it. It was twitter. Shareholders are much better with him at the helm. Etc, etc.

This is simply not true.

Having a hunch you can get some money, is not securing funding. This is just like when Bart Simpson tells Milhouse he can read lips, and then admits he doesn't know what's being said. ("I thought you said you could read lips!" "I thought I could!")[0] It's fraud.

He said "funding secured" after an initial 30 minute chat. That's not a deal. That's not even a verbal agreement to make an LOU. He also did this without telling anyone on the board. The SEC even released text messages from the board and staff that directly asked him after his tweet "Is this true?"

Asserting shareholders are better with him, is highly debatable. He has run 3 companies simultaneously, put his brother in charge of one, and then when it started to fail, bailed it out with a merger with one of his other companies, then promptly spun up a third company because apparently he has to have three. The celebrated car company has serious logistics and manufacturing problems, and is deeply in debt, and doesn't make a profit.

Ironically, what might be his most successful venture isn't even public.

[0] https://deadhomersociety.com/2013/06/18/quote-of-the-day-155...

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#60

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:52 AM UTC

dragosmocrii wrote: post #35

Personally, I think Elon Musk wants out of Tesla. The things he did lately, all point to this conclusion. Maybe he lost vision or interest in the company, but leaving from his own will would jeopardize the future of the company, since most of Tesla's backers are fans of him. Arranging himself an exit in this way, would make it look as he's the victim left with no choice but leave.

[deleted]