Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#181

Post by goldenCeasar » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 1:56 PM UTC

bhupy wrote: post #84

czep wrote: post #47

Opponents of the minimum wage argue that it reduces employment by creating an artificial floor on wages, that jobs are lost because employers can't afford to pay the minimum. But if you can't pay the minimum, then you didn't really have a job to offer in the first place! By extension of this logic, employers could argue that they are losing jobs because they can only afford to pay someone who will work 12 hours a day…

> If you can't pay a basic living wage, for fair hours, in safe conditions, with necessary medical benefits, then you don't have a job to offer. Why not let the employees decide if the job is worth taking? If there exists people willing to voluntarily take a job given its wage/conditions, you have a job to offer.

Because human dignity.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#182

Post by calvinbhai » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 1:57 PM UTC

mlevental wrote: post #119

flexie wrote: post #57

$15/hour is still not much in the international market where Amazon sells its goods. In large parts of Europe it's less than what a warehouse worker makes. It's still barely enough for an adult to be able to pay his/her half of family expenses in the US. A lot of employees will still need a second job. And it only comes now, 20 years after the company's founding, after it has huge profits (and can deduct expenses lik…

>$15/hour is still not much in the international market where Amazon sells its goods. In large parts of Europe it's less than what a warehouse worker makes. i don't understand this comment. while i'm all for warehouse workers getting a fair wage i don't understand the point of comparing a us wage, being paid in the us, to us workers, to foreign workers in foreign economies? yes USD 15 is not enough to survive in Oslo…

+1

And I'm not sure about the actual numbers, but something like $30K per year basically puts one in a top 10% of the world, and more than $50K, you are already in the 1% of the world, by income. (not sure if that factors in cost of living).

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#183

Post by czep » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 1:57 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #135

kazen44 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because employees have inherently more power then workers in suchs an example. Workers need wages and money to survive in the economy, and usually have little negotiation power compared to (massive) companies. You could argue we could go back to the 1800's in terms of labour standards, but don't be suprised when workers simply decide to kill their bosses and companies retaliating[1]. Diminishing labour rights is just…

Why would they have more power ? Employees have the power to say no, shop somewhere else, to do a shitty job / not follow orders and let the employer figure it out, quit when they want, leave the employers without the job being done overnight. They also receive something very defined and predictable (money defined in the contract) in exchange for some vague objectives where the employers needs to constantly check if…

> And employers don't need wages and money to "survive in the economy" ?

Not if they inherited it. The key idea here is asymmetry of power. When people are desperate enough that they would take a sub-minimum wage job, this doesn't necessarily imply a "voluntary exchange". If you're facing starvation or medical bankruptcy, you are essentially being coerced to take any job you can find.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#184

Post by RaptorJ » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

throwaway2048 wrote: post #107

chrisseaton wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I've got no sense of humour, but I think that's unprofessional and something like bullying, rather than funny. Legislation should surely not target one individual by name like that?

I think the richest man in the world can handle it.

oh no, won't someone please think of the downtrodden trillionaire

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#185

Post by jonwachob91 » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #176

Ericson2314 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you critically care about this issue, the extent of which this is labor-driven vs PR-driven is crucial to the war in which $15/hour is just the first battle.

What do you mean by “labor-driven?”

I'm assuming it relates to the tight labor market giving workers the power to choose where they work at (as opposed to "this is the only job offer I have")

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#186

Post by aczerepinski » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

mlevental wrote: post #119

flexie wrote: post #57

$15/hour is still not much in the international market where Amazon sells its goods. In large parts of Europe it's less than what a warehouse worker makes. It's still barely enough for an adult to be able to pay his/her half of family expenses in the US. A lot of employees will still need a second job. And it only comes now, 20 years after the company's founding, after it has huge profits (and can deduct expenses lik…

>$15/hour is still not much in the international market where Amazon sells its goods. In large parts of Europe it's less than what a warehouse worker makes. i don't understand this comment. while i'm all for warehouse workers getting a fair wage i don't understand the point of comparing a us wage, being paid in the us, to us workers, to foreign workers in foreign economies? yes USD 15 is not enough to survive in Oslo…

I can't even fathom trying to live on 30k. Where I live childcare costs around 20k, so many subsidies would be required for sure. Any little setback like unexpected healthcare or transportation costs would absolutely destroy you.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#187

Post by samirillian » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #141

swebs wrote: post #17

>In addition, the company also pledges its public policy team will lobby for an increase to the federal minimum wage from $7.25 — it doesn’t identify a specific wage that it’s targeting, but instead says, “We believe $7.25 is too low. We would look to Congress to decide the parameters of a new, higher federal minimum wage.” I'm going to take a wild guess and assume it will be $15/hour. That way they'll get to look pr…

> they'll get to look progressive for adopting this wage early, while mitigating their competitive disadvantage by forcing every other company to raise their wages too eventually. That's deeply cynical. In the process, they're actually paying real people more money. Which is sort of critically important if you care about this issue and not just taking pot shots at Amazon on HN.

Cynical isn't the right word for the problem in swebs reasoning. Of course Bezos is a villain. But if you get Amazon to do this, it's good for the country, regardless of motivation.

So remain cynical but recognize that good politics can lead to bad companies doing good things.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#188

Post by austenallred » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #175

bhupy wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can't pay a basic living wage, for fair hours, in safe conditions, with necessary medical benefits, then you don't have a job to offer. Why not let the employees decide if the job is worth taking? If there exists people willing to voluntarily take a job given its wage/conditions, you have a job to offer.

That leads to a society that, it appears, many people don't want to live in. Many people don't want to live in a USA where people can work full-time and yet still have miserable lives bereft of hope. Some people do want to live in that USA; we see every day the battles as these differing visions of the USA compete.

What do you think would happen if there were open borders? Would the US see net inflow or outflow of populace?

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#189

Post by whatshisface » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #176

Ericson2314 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you critically care about this issue, the extent of which this is labor-driven vs PR-driven is crucial to the war in which $15/hour is just the first battle.

What do you mean by “labor-driven?”

If this is to be interpreted as evidence that the workers have bargaining power, it is only the first step in a progression of improving conditions (because now they're able to negotiate.) If it's just PR-driven serendipity then it might even be accompanied by worsening conditions elsewhere. This seems reasonable because people are a lot more reliable at fighting for their own interests than they are at considering the interests of others.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#190

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #167

Shivetya wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15 an hour will push a lot of people out of being employable. There is a greater tolerance for whom you will accept at current wage points. The other effect of a much higher starting wage is you will have people enter the market who did not think the wage was worth their time. The people who cannot be relied on to show up on schedule, quit and want to come back, have some issues in their credit or criminal backgroun…

> $15 an hour will push a lot of people out of being employable. Or maybe it will just force employers to pay better wages to those they employ already. $7.50 / hour is what they pay kids here to stock grocery chains.

[deleted]