New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine • Hacker News Board

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#391

Post by reaperducer » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #368

paradite wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be very honest, I find the methodology very similar to what drug trafficker would do to hide their drugs. And I don't think this method will end well for all parties either way. If it works, customs officers cannot find actual illegal contents, and criminals walk free through customs. If customs officers somehow detects you are doing this, you risk obstructing security measures.

If it works, customs officers cannot find actual illegal contents, and criminals walk free through customs. "Illegal contents", as in what? Unflattering cartoons of the president? A spreadsheet marked "cocaine delivery schedule"? Why is this on the alleged criminal's phone while she's crossing the border? Has she never heard of the internet? No real criminal could be caught by any of this buffoonery. Lots of normal p…

Unflattering cartoons of the president?

In Thailand, both tourists and locals can be severely punished for making fun of the King.

(I'd Google some links, but I'm on a dialup-speed cellular connection right now. It shouldn't be hard to find, though.)

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#392

Post by mavdi » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 5:42 PM UTC

We immediately need a phone and laptop feature called "Border crossing mode". Once you can perhaps active anytime but only gets deactivated once you're physically in a predefined location.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#393

Post by jjcm » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

mandeepj wrote: post #45

jjcm wrote: post #39

I really want phone makers to allow me to unlock into separate enclaves on my phone. I.e. If I use 1234 as my unlock pin, it goes to my normal phone. If I use 5678 instead, it unlocks to a separate user account with its own notifications, pictures, apps, etc., similar to a truecrypt hidden partition.

It can turn out like this - Officer - Do you have multiple pins on your phone? You - (if you say) No Then you lied to an officer. They can also find it out.

"It's a work phone. There's an administrative account I don't have access to."

This is already true of laptops, and with some simple setup beforehand that wouldn't be a lie. I highly doubt any customs officer would press further than that.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#394

Post by reaperducer » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

8ytecoder wrote: post #326

paradite wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me ask you this hypothetical question instead: What if we have a "physical encryption" technology that allows encrypting physical objects so that X-ray scanners, drug detecting methods or metal detectors cannot see through them? Would customs be allowed to ask for the decryption key? Or should the customs just ignore whatever encrypted inside?

Physically, there's constraint on what I am exposing. Digitally, it's my entire life. The bar for a search must be much higher to reflect that. Most people here are not used to dealing with a corrupt officer. Imagine a scenario where you own a property and the police officer next door desperately wants it and he finds a loop hole to block your access to the street (and does more horrible things to get you to vacate y…

Imagine...

No need to imagine. There are innumerable cases over the years where cops have turned into stalkers backed by the power of the government when their girlfriends dump them. It happened to one of my ex-es, but I've seen it in newspapers dozens of times over the years.

The problem is that cops are still people. And people are often messy, emotional, irregular, obsessive, mean, or just have a bad day and need someone to take it out on.

Wetware will be wetware. All we can do is advocate for better training and smarter policies.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#395

Post by ttty » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

mandeepj wrote: post #45

jjcm wrote: post #39

I really want phone makers to allow me to unlock into separate enclaves on my phone. I.e. If I use 1234 as my unlock pin, it goes to my normal phone. If I use 5678 instead, it unlocks to a separate user account with its own notifications, pictures, apps, etc., similar to a truecrypt hidden partition.

It can turn out like this - Officer - Do you have multiple pins on your phone? You - (if you say) No Then you lied to an officer. They can also find it out.

Have a random number of partitions and answer yes.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#396

Post by macintux » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

ttty wrote: post #355

NullPrefix wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...didn't want to ruin our vacation so I complied. >It ruined the vacation for me... So what was the lesson?

Buy new phone, put random things there to look real and give them that phone instead. Or wipe your phone, restore backup from cloud on arrival.

> Or wipe your phone, restore backup from cloud on arrival.

I'd wager the agents could legitimately (for some deranged, modern usage of that word) require that you either surrender your phone anyway or restore it immediately so they can review what you're clearly planning on bringing into the country.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#397

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

jjcm wrote: post #393

mandeepj wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can turn out like this - Officer - Do you have multiple pins on your phone? You - (if you say) No Then you lied to an officer. They can also find it out.

"It's a work phone. There's an administrative account I don't have access to." This is already true of laptops, and with some simple setup beforehand that wouldn't be a lie. I highly doubt any customs officer would press further than that.

[deleted]

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#398

Post by jtmcmc » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #390

paradite wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be very honest, I find the methodology very similar to what drug trafficker would do to hide their drugs. And I don't think this method will end well for all parties either way. If it works, customs officers cannot find actual illegal contents, and criminals walk free through customs. If customs officers somehow detects you are doing this, you risk obstructing security measures.

To be very honest, I find the methodology very similar to what drug trafficker would do to hide their drugs. It's a shame that people now have to guard their privacy like drugs.

it's a shame that people had to guard their drugs! and now their privacy!

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#399

Post by PerilousD » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

If you are carrying a phone and laptop out of the country in this day and age with all of the contents of your digital life on it then you're an idiot. Last couple of trips I used a postpaid phone and a cheap chromebook. They want the phone keep it. They want the laptop keep it. I sure as hell dont want it back after they've planted who knows what on it after their "investigation".

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#400

Post by tokyodude » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #80

tokyodude wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or even iOS. Just downloading all the apps takes many hours on a fast connection. Restoring 2FA is also a PITA

I consider a few hours restoring from a backup while I sleep to be a pretty small price. To some people this might be a huge inconvenience, I suppose. I mean, think about it: Hours without access to Instagram. HOURS!!

When I arrive at the airport I use my phone for maps, my travel info, my contacts, my reservations, busses, trains, taxis, uber, messages with people I'm coordinating with, my travel notes, etc...

Or are you suggesting I should camp out in the airport for a few hours to restore my phone before I can figure out where I'm going and get ahold of my contacts?

Oh let me guess. Your solution so to print those contacts and maps (oh, no GPS to figure out where I am on that map) and use a pay phone (because I still need to re-install the apps I'd normally be using to contact people). Heck, I don't actually have phone numbers for > 90% of my friends. I just have them on Facebook, Line, WhatsApp. The only people I have phone numbers for are for people who've been friends longer than about 15 years, in other words before messaging