New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine • Hacker News Board

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#31

Post by pythonaut_16 » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10

rectang wrote: post #8

Is there a SaaS provider specializing in storing encrypted images of phones? The idea being that before you travel, you upload the encrypted image and wipe the phone, then after passing through customs you restore.

> before you travel, you upload the encrypted image and wipe the phone, then after passing through customs you restore That sounds like willfully evading customs, which is a serious crime.

I'm not so sure it's that clear. (I'm not a lawyer)

If you can lawfully download a phone image over the internet while in the country and you can lawfully enter the country with no or limited digital information on your person then I don't see how backing up your phone in a different country (where New Zealand has no jurisdiction) and legally downloading the backup in New Zealand is evading customs.

Another (presumably) legal scenarios would include backing up all of your data, carrying no phone into the country, and then purchasing one while there. Is that "evading customs"?

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#32

Post by tspike » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

rectang wrote: post #8

Is there a SaaS provider specializing in storing encrypted images of phones? The idea being that before you travel, you upload the encrypted image and wipe the phone, then after passing through customs you restore.

For what it's worth, iCloud provides this for Apple devices.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#33

Post by tomp » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

rectang wrote: post #8

Is there a SaaS provider specializing in storing encrypted images of phones? The idea being that before you travel, you upload the encrypted image and wipe the phone, then after passing through customs you restore.

Apple? Upload to iCloud (it's supposed to be encrypted!), wipe, restore.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#34

Post by crazygringo » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

rectang wrote: post #8

Is there a SaaS provider specializing in storing encrypted images of phones? The idea being that before you travel, you upload the encrypted image and wipe the phone, then after passing through customs you restore.

I don't think you need a special provider... at least on an iPhone, it only takes a few taps to wipe it, and then when you restart it, it immediately gives you the option of logging in with your Apple ID and restoring from your last backup (which is automatically made nightly, and reportedly encrypted).

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#35

Post by dawnerd » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

There’s a border patrol show on Netflix and they show a few phones being searched. It’s pretty clear it’s not about terrorists and bad people having bad files in the cloud. It’s about people coming on a tourists visa and working. They’d find all sorts of emails talking a out a job.

I don’t think that’s a valid excuse to search devices though. If anything I think it proves work visas need to be more accessible so people don’t have to lie their way in for a job.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#36

Post by tomp » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 2:48 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10

rectang wrote: post #8

Is there a SaaS provider specializing in storing encrypted images of phones? The idea being that before you travel, you upload the encrypted image and wipe the phone, then after passing through customs you restore.

> before you travel, you upload the encrypted image and wipe the phone, then after passing through customs you restore That sounds like willfully evading customs, which is a serious crime.

So taking a knife out of my pocket and leaving it at home before boarding a plane is a serious crime?

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#37

Post by gcb0 » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 2:48 PM UTC

no1youknowz wrote: post #11

If this becomes the norm, then I can see a startup offering "convincing" email, browser history, social media profiles, photos and telephone call lists to present to customs. Give those pesky 5 eyes poison data of a fictional life via a 2nd phone.

this already happens.

one case I know about: tatoo artists travel the world for work as guests in different studios. most do so under tourism visa sice its only a couple months each place. their managers (and online forums) already have a list of things that can be in the luggage and in their phones and instagram feeds so that they really do look like tourists.

security theaters is security theater.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#38

Post by klohto » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 2:48 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #16

jackhack wrote: post #4

It's troubling to watch one of the most amazing places on earth transform itself into a totalitarian purgatory. Access to physical phone/laptop is only the first step -- mark my words. Big Brother's bureaucrats are never satiated. Next, we will have demands for passwords and unrestricted access to : email, facebook, photo sharing, hacker news posts, social media, etc. I see sudden spike in the market for burner phone…

Factory reset and wipe your device before travel, and restore when you get to your hotel. I’m a privacy nut and while this is a disturbing trend there exist straightforward work arounds. EDIT: I do this all the time and it’s not even remotely difficult or a big deal.

>there exist straightforward workarounds Exactly and that’s why this a problem. This law will never catch anyone that actually is troubling for NZ because anyone who is shady, already uses some workaround.

Now it will only bother and waste time of people who are serious about their privacy to apply this workaround as well.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#39

Post by jjcm » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 2:48 PM UTC

I really want phone makers to allow me to unlock into separate enclaves on my phone. I.e. If I use 1234 as my unlock pin, it goes to my normal phone. If I use 5678 instead, it unlocks to a separate user account with its own notifications, pictures, apps, etc., similar to a truecrypt hidden partition.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#40

Post by splaty » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

"A lot of the organised crime groups are becoming a lot more sophisticated in the ways they're trying to get things across the border.

So they've realised they can bring data into a country on a smart phone with a password. Law enforcement will really be screwed once organised crime figures out the other options.