Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that • Hacker News Board

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#161

Post by jashmatthews » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 8:34 AM UTC

Keats wrote: post #146

jashmatthews wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And there's no legal way to do the business below that. Actually, there is. Register an Irish company. All the paperwork is in English, costs are low, and you can operate across the EU.

If you are based in Italy and operate the company from there, you will still have to pay the Italian taxes. But yeah at least you should have easier accounting and no running costs.

> you will still have to pay the Italian taxes.

Yup. The company is clearly subject to Italian taxes. This all hinges on whether registering a branch is less hassle and cheaper than opening an Srl.

Lots of smaller German startups use either a UK limited or an Irish limited + a German branch.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#162

Post by s3nnyy » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 9:06 AM UTC

wsc981 wrote: post #157

s3nnyy wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't get why Germany is underpaying engineers. After taxes, a cleaning lady in Switzerland can earn more than an engineer in Germany. Net salaries in Zürich are the only ones in Europe that match Bay Area level. (Living costs are lower than you think, see my blogpost titled "Nine reasons why I moved to Switzerland to work in tech", which I wrote after I emigrated from Germany: https://bit.ly/2GNlJcA ) So why…

... So why should top notch talent move to Germany, if they can move to Norway, the Netherlands or Switzerland where they earn double or triple? ... Salaries for software devs in The Netherlands aren't really great. Probably worse or the same level as (most of) Germany. Taxes are a huge burden, though expats get a 30% tax exempt ruling [0] for a couple of years. I wouldn't recommend moving to The Netherlands for the…

Good for you.

I was recommending NL exactly because of the 30% tax exemption for 8 (!) years for foreigners who move to NL to work in tech and other "in demand" fields, which results in a very nice after-tax salaray. Without that, you're right, NL isn't that interesting financially.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#163

Post by thirdsun » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 12:17 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #137

yorwba wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German, I have no idea what you mean by the German eBay and PayPal (Facebook was StudiVZ, I guess, but now it's just Facebook).

Isn’t Schpock the German eBay?

Craigslist might be a better comparison.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#164

Post by wink » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 3:10 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #113

I have a question. Are there any German laws or regulations that prohibit using startups from using stock options as part of total compensation? I thought I remembered hearing something about this once, namely that it wasn't possible in the same way it was possible in the US. Is there any truth to that?

I think the mentality in general is a lot more conservative, financially speaking.

So also a lot of employees won't take stock options over a bigger pay.

I also think most developers are not in the mood to live like people in SF do - just barely scraping by after accomodation and food. Most people here want to live a good life on their "developer salary" which is already pretty good for Germany in the most cases.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#165

Post by umichguy » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

tormeh wrote: post #151

Gravityloss wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the competition in EU is hard enough, if companies always choose the "safe" or "good enough" solution?

Me too. I've heard an observation from a Belgian customer: Once a Belgian customer has signed a contract with a supplier, they're married, and will put up with all kinds of shitty product. Presumably, I speculate, because cancelling the contract is seen as an admission of failure for the buyer. Completely crazy. Entire countries never cancelling no matter how shitty the product turns out to be.

Sounds a bit like IBM back in the day. There's an anecdote that you never got fired as a manger for choosing an IBM product/ solution. It's the safe choice, no one could really fault you for going with it, even if it didn't meet all your reqts.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#166

Post by jashmatthews » Mon, Oct 01, 2018, 10:10 PM UTC

NotCamelCase wrote: post #128

stesch wrote: post #75

The difference is: We have labor laws.

Why is not there a middle ground between hire-and-fire-quick vs very strong/rigid labor laws that would give more optimized/successful end results for most involved than either of the two extreme points would generate? On one hand, I certainly would not want what's happened to e.g. Telltale employees who recently got laid off abruptly with no severance packages to happen to any of my friends/family. On the other hand…

Germany has trial periods for employees. If you put in the contract you can terminate the contract without reason for up to 6 months. It goes both ways. Employees can leave with almost no notice during the same period.