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Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

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Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#51

Post by Kaveren »

drawkbox wrote: post #21
thefounder wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why they don't upgrade their methods for the 21st century and get into legality. I'm sure they would be quite successful in pharma/opioids/tabacco/gambling businesses. There would be no need to use axes on average people.

Black markets have decreased supply, increased demand due to decreased supply (through legal limitations and criminal interactions) all this leads to more margin and profits. To fight criminality and massive gains in black markets, the only way is to regulate and decriminalize black markets. In the drug war for instance, compressing markets to a few players, especially in a black market where that is a natural reacti…

I'm very strongly in favor of drug decriminalization, I believe it's oppressive for states to attempt to control the behavior of non-violent, well-informed, adult citizens who want to consume a substance.

However, I think the overall situation is more complicated than that, as this article details. The organized crime cartels have many streams of revenue. There's nothing there to legalize in the case of activities like natural resource theft.

When you have a corrupt and weak state, criminals will see opportunity in preying on innocent civilians and companies through threat of violence.

Edit: Changed "There's nothing here to legalize." to "There's nothing there to legalize in the case of activities like natural resource theft." to clarify my statement.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#52

Post by Bucephalus355 »

Basically Latin America has been like the entire Middle East for the last 10 years.

For all Steven Pinker writes about the decline of violence, this cannot be in anyway true about Latin America.

The crime rate is up 10% since the early 2000’s, even after aggressive “statistical management” by the governments. After including what crimes aren’t reported, it’s probably closer to 30% or 40%.

The Navy Seals have done training exercises in the favelas of Brazil; it’s that bad.

The entire continent has been plunged into the same chaos Columbia experienced in the late 80’s (when they would bomb an entire jet airliner just to kill 1 person).

Perhaps this was inevitable. Maybe some “age of violence” just happens on the way from dictatorship to democracy. After the Soviet Union fell, it didn’t seem like that in Eastern Europe, but events in the Middle East and South America now seem to suggest otherwise.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#53

Post by Kaveren »

mamon wrote: post #37
2_listerine_pls wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason the US can't stop them has nothing to do with guerrilla warfare. The CIA dictates the policy and the military follows it. Their policies are ineffective because they are interested in delaying the war.

I think the issue can be explained without conspiracy theories. US military can't win against guerrilla, because US public cares about their image as the "good guys". And to be good guys you have to avoid any civilian casualties, which significantly raises the difficulty of all military operations. The war against ISIS in Syria is a good example: Americans struggled for years, and then Russians came and pretty much e…

Alternatively, some portion of the US public is against slaughtering innocent civilians, and it's not just about public image. I do agree with your general sentiment, though.

I still don't believe that brutality and disregard of civilians is the only way to efficiently win an armed conflict against insurgent groups, though.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#54

Post by samstave »

paulie_a wrote: post #47
samstave wrote: post #11

How much cocaine can you dissolve in gasoline-based/like solvents to smuggle and then reconstitute? How much cash can you smuggle in the middle of a fuel tanker? How easily/efficiently can oil companies launder money? Why is no one addressing the seemingly obvious truth that the entire world is nothing but a complex corrupt criminal system of lies? Or am I just far too cynical?

The Russian mob did that with the rail distillery McCormick. They dyed the vodka blue and would ship it as window cleaner in 55 gallon drums. Then remove the dye to avoid taxes.

THanks - I was interested in this story - and found this link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/19/nyregion/a-smuggling-oper...

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#55

Post by paulie_a »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #43
nickbauman wrote: post #2

Mexico, along with Russia, are the two most notorious mafia states. And notice the problems have been getting worse as the amount of oil diminishes, which was predicted. This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. There will be even more refugees, too, because of this.

Russia can probably control their mafia. At least convince them not to touch "civilians": Meh, just a bunch on mafiosi killing each other. But if 12 headless people are found hanging from the town's main bridge, that's different, people will be scared.

The Russian government is a mafia, we just call them oligarchs. If one gets a little uppity he gets whacked. The leader is worth 50 billion dollars. It's the sopranos on steroids and has nuclear weapons.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#56

Post by v_lisivka »

mamon wrote: post #37
2_listerine_pls wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason the US can't stop them has nothing to do with guerrilla warfare. The CIA dictates the policy and the military follows it. Their policies are ineffective because they are interested in delaying the war.

I think the issue can be explained without conspiracy theories. US military can't win against guerrilla, because US public cares about their image as the "good guys". And to be good guys you have to avoid any civilian casualties, which significantly raises the difficulty of all military operations. The war against ISIS in Syria is a good example: Americans struggled for years, and then Russians came and pretty much e…

US military can drop few nukes and end a war even faster. The weak joint is not a military. The weak point is cohort of bribed journalists, which write everything Russia want for small amount of money. When USA bomb civilians, bribed journalist will make woes. When Russia bomb civilians, bribed journalist will be silent or supportive. Why not to support state, which pays your bills?

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#57

Post by v_lisivka »

Kaveren wrote: post #53
mamon wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue can be explained without conspiracy theories. US military can't win against guerrilla, because US public cares about their image as the "good guys". And to be good guys you have to avoid any civilian casualties, which significantly raises the difficulty of all military operations. The war against ISIS in Syria is a good example: Americans struggled for years, and then Russians came and pretty much e…

Alternatively, some portion of the US public is against slaughtering innocent civilians, and it's not just about public image. I do agree with your general sentiment, though. I still don't believe that brutality and disregard of civilians is the only way to efficiently win an armed conflict against insurgent groups, though.

This portion of the US public remain silent when millions of civilians were killed. So it's not a strong moral principle but just a preference.

— Hey, you! Don't kill civilians! — Okey.

— Hey, you! Don't kill civilians! — Идите на х! — Okey

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#59

Post by qaq »

Bucephalus355 wrote: post #52

Basically Latin America has been like the entire Middle East for the last 10 years. For all Steven Pinker writes about the decline of violence, this cannot be in anyway true about Latin America. The crime rate is up 10% since the early 2000’s, even after aggressive “statistical management” by the governments. After including what crimes aren’t reported, it’s probably closer to 30% or 40%. The Navy Seals have done tra…

" After the Soviet Union fell, it didn’t seem like that in Eastern Europe" it was pretty bad after USSR collapsed there were organized crime groups with membership in high thousands. Some of the richest oligarchs in Ukraine and Russia came from those groups including Rinat Akhmetov in Ukraine and a good number of people from putin's inner circle.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#60

Post by ivm »

Bucephalus355 wrote: post #52

Basically Latin America has been like the entire Middle East for the last 10 years. For all Steven Pinker writes about the decline of violence, this cannot be in anyway true about Latin America. The crime rate is up 10% since the early 2000’s, even after aggressive “statistical management” by the governments. After including what crimes aren’t reported, it’s probably closer to 30% or 40%. The Navy Seals have done tra…

FYI: Chile has lower homicide rate[1] than the US on average (3.46 vs. 5.35) and Argentina is pretty close (5.94).

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

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