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Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

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Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#41

Post by onetimemanytime »

21 wrote: post #31
jimnotgym wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear. I wonder, however, if drugs had never become illegal would a major crime organization managed to form in the first place?

Russia has major crime organizations without having a reputation as a narco place.

Can we agree that "mafia" related violence levels are much, much higher in MX?

Mexican cartels have the infrastructure already in place: "Miguel, get 25 guys and hijack the fuel trucks"...or rob armored trucks. That infrastructure, including manpower, political protection etc was built and is probably maintained with drug money.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#42

Post by stevespang »

lechiffre10 wrote: post #20
adventured wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US military or national guard would be deployed as necessary if the cartels began firing on the contractors and government workers building a theoretical wall. Cartels are certainly threatening in their environment, they're entirely worthless in actual military style engagements. In terms of gear, logistics, training and soldiers, they're less capable than the most mediocre of nation armies. It's not what they're…

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. How's the US military holding up against fighters in Afghanistan or Iraq? Guerilla style warfare has always been a problem for the United States. Case in point, Vietnam. Now throw the Cartel into the mix with the funding they have and you'd have a much bigger problem at hand. "They fare extremely poorly against the Mexican military." Show proof of this statement? Ev…

It is well documented that the judges in Mexico are openly corrupt and more than 80% of narco kingpin arrests are "pay offs" and they are released. One Mexico President acted "astounded" when he learned this . . .

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#43

Post by onetimemanytime »

nickbauman wrote: post #2

Mexico, along with Russia, are the two most notorious mafia states. And notice the problems have been getting worse as the amount of oil diminishes, which was predicted. This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. There will be even more refugees, too, because of this.

Russia can probably control their mafia. At least convince them not to touch "civilians": Meh, just a bunch on mafiosi killing each other.

But if 12 headless people are found hanging from the town's main bridge, that's different, people will be scared.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#44

Post by DoubleCribble »

lechiffre10 wrote: post #20
adventured wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US military or national guard would be deployed as necessary if the cartels began firing on the contractors and government workers building a theoretical wall. Cartels are certainly threatening in their environment, they're entirely worthless in actual military style engagements. In terms of gear, logistics, training and soldiers, they're less capable than the most mediocre of nation armies. It's not what they're…

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. How's the US military holding up against fighters in Afghanistan or Iraq? Guerilla style warfare has always been a problem for the United States. Case in point, Vietnam. Now throw the Cartel into the mix with the funding they have and you'd have a much bigger problem at hand. "They fare extremely poorly against the Mexican military." Show proof of this statement? Ev…

There is a huge gulf (ocean) in motivation between trying to bring "democracy" to third world countries and an attack on the country's doorstep. When only 1 DEA agent was murdered in Mexico, it provoked an enormous response.[0]

There's a great line at the end of Tora! Tora! Tora! from Admiral Yamamoto that would undoubtedly apply in such a scenario, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiki_Camarena

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#45

Post by comnetxr »

21 wrote: post #25

This story collapses a lot of popular narratives. That peoples in USA buying drugs are the drivers of violence in Mexico. That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear.

It collapses the second narrative, but not the first. It could still be that drug money was the driving force behind the cartels, but after they grew to sufficient size, the cartels could sustain themselves otherwise.

The second narrative is kind of obviously too simple. Of course the cartels won't just dissolve, and maybe they will find ways to sustain themselves indefinitely. But maybe we shouldn't continue to feed them? Surely that doesn't help.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#46

Post by pier25 »

21 wrote: post #25

This story collapses a lot of popular narratives. That peoples in USA buying drugs are the drivers of violence in Mexico. That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear.

> That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear

Nothing will make violence disappear completely.

That said, legalizing drugs will most certainly reduce cartel activity.

Cartels exist because they sell a product with a huge margin that people can't really buy from anywhere else. Even when selling stolen products such as gasoline their market and margin is much smaller.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#47

Post by paulie_a »

samstave wrote: post #11

How much cocaine can you dissolve in gasoline-based/like solvents to smuggle and then reconstitute? How much cash can you smuggle in the middle of a fuel tanker? How easily/efficiently can oil companies launder money? Why is no one addressing the seemingly obvious truth that the entire world is nothing but a complex corrupt criminal system of lies? Or am I just far too cynical?

The Russian mob did that with the rail distillery McCormick. They dyed the vodka blue and would ship it as window cleaner in 55 gallon drums. Then remove the dye to avoid taxes.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#48

Post by Insanity »

linnk87 wrote: post #16
gambiting wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. Just FYI, not everyone on HN is from US.

Some of us even live in Mexico. Crazy, right?

I never felt unsafe in Mexico and actually enjoy it a lot more than my yearly visits to the US.

Incredibly friendly people, great food and beautiful places.

Regarding violence, I find that most drug related violence stays contained within the cartel-world. Whilst in the US, random shootings are.. random..

Not that I feel unsafe in the US either though, the odds are pretty good that nothing will happen in either country.

(Most of my time in Mexico is spent in NL, Monterrey, and most of my time in the US near San Antonio, Texas. So I can't speak for either country in it's entirety of course)

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#49

Post by nyolfen »

pier25 wrote: post #46
21 wrote: post #25

This story collapses a lot of popular narratives. That peoples in USA buying drugs are the drivers of violence in Mexico. That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear.

> That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear Nothing will make violence disappear completely. That said, legalizing drugs will most certainly reduce cartel activity. Cartels exist because they sell a product with a huge margin that people can't really buy from anywhere else. Even when selling stolen products such as gasoline their market and margin is much smaller.

it says in this article that the fuel theft is cheaper and easier, and one former cartel member says it makes as much money as drugs

>their market and margin is much smaller

you think there's a smaller market for gasoline than drugs?

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#50

Post by paulie_a »

lossolo wrote: post #13
thefounder wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why they don't upgrade their methods for the 21st century and get into legality. I'm sure they would be quite successful in pharma/opioids/tabacco/gambling businesses. There would be no need to use axes on average people.

Because running legal business is a lot harder than running illegal one. With legal business there are laws/regulations and there is competition. When you run drug business and competitor show up you just take a gun and eliminate your competitor (simplifying here of course). Another thing is that you will get respect from a lot people in certain circles and a lot will fear you if you've built successful crime organiz…

Nicky Barnes made the cover of a NY times magazine making the violent drug dealer look respectable.
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