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Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

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Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#21

Mexico, along with Russia, are the two most notorious mafia states. And notice the problems have been getting worse as the amount of oil diminishes, which was predicted. This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. There will be even more refugees, too, because of this.

I don't understand why they don't upgrade their methods for the 21st century and get into legality. I'm sure they would be quite successful in pharma/opioids/tabacco/gambling businesses. There would be no need to use axes on average people.

Black markets have decreased supply, increased demand due to decreased supply (through legal limitations and criminal interactions) all this leads to more margin and profits.

To fight criminality and massive gains in black markets, the only way is to regulate and decriminalize black markets.

In the drug war for instance, compressing markets to a few players, especially in a black market where that is a natural reaction, only pressurizes the danger and leads to: mafias, violence, synthetics to get around legality, unsafe substances, people buying more dangerous substances or wrongly marked products such as opioids of safer types that are really fentanyl or carfentanil synthetics that are acutely more dangerous [1] and made in unsafe conditions, etc. The Controlled Substances Act and list run by the DEA is a cartel dream to create the margins they desire.

Prohibition of alcohol, a dangerous drug that is more dangerous illegal, should have taught this lesson, even back then alcohol was more dangerous to take when made in moonshine and other dangerous types as well as the mafias it created. It seems silly now to make shipping and producing alcohol legally and regulated illegal, no alcohol trafficking crimes happen today as a result of illegality.

> counties that enacted and enforced prohibition had homicide rates increase by about 30 to 60 percent relative to counties that did not enforce prohibition [2]

> When Prohibition was repealed in 1933, many bootleggers and suppliers simply moved into the legitimate liquor business. Some crime syndicates moved their efforts into expanding their protection rackets to cover legal liquor sales and other business areas. [2]

If something is dangerous, to add in more safety you need decriminalization and regulation on legal markets which handle safety much better. This adds in safe players into the game not just the underground black market criminal enterprises.

One day we maybe will learn that making non-violence a crime doesn't always make it safer, in most cases it makes it more dangerous. Though making something illegal or criminal when it is a health issue sure can increase profits on the underground at the expense of safety and harm reduction.

The hardline on opioids in the US, pressurizing doctors with liability and patients addicted that get cut off, they end up on their own and most of the overdoses today are people getting opioids they think are one thing and end up overdosing on fentanyl or carfentanil synthetics from the black market [3][4].

If people are addicted they should be able to get decriminalized opioids safely with the liability on them while they work to get off if they can, that will reduce overdose deaths by possibly half.

Hardline approaches to addiction do not work and it is not criminal, it is a health issue. However, making that illegal makes it not only a health issue, but also more dangerous due to the black market which leads to violence and deaths transforming this approach to a tragedy that we keep doubling down on.

To solve black markets you have to take the decriminalized/healthy/safety/peacekeeping/economic/market/opportunity approach over the force/illegality/hardline approach. Economic opportunities arise in legal regulated markets, safety and harm reduction increase in those markets. In some cases people don't want to turn to crime/black market but that is the better opportunity and may appear to provide more safety for their own survival.

Ultimately economic opportunities in legal/decriminalized markets win more than forceful approaches, because the latter make the criminal opportunity better. We need to take a smarter economic approach, end the war on drugs for instance and come into Mexico with a Marshall Plan like economic push that can help legal/investable markets which will provide more opportunity and everyone wins. You can't win a liberation with force, you need peacekeeping and economic opportunity.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/6pvtlm/letheal_amount...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_Stat...

[3] https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/opioid-overdose-de...

[4] https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/o...

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#23

Mexico, along with Russia, are the two most notorious mafia states. And notice the problems have been getting worse as the amount of oil diminishes, which was predicted. This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. There will be even more refugees, too, because of this.

>> This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. Just FYI, not everyone on HN is from US.

English lacks a 'we' form that separates "me and all the other people" from "you and I". I think the poster meant the former.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clusivity

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US military or national guard would be deployed as necessary if the cartels began firing on the contractors and government workers building a theoretical wall. Cartels are certainly threatening in their environment, they're entirely worthless in actual military style engagements. In terms of gear, logistics, training and soldiers, they're less capable than the most mediocre of nation armies. It's not what they're…

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. How's the US military holding up against fighters in Afghanistan or Iraq? Guerilla style warfare has always been a problem for the United States. Case in point, Vietnam. Now throw the Cartel into the mix with the funding they have and you'd have a much bigger problem at hand. "They fare extremely poorly against the Mexican military." Show proof of this statement? Ev…

The reason the US can't stop them has nothing to do with guerrilla warfare. The CIA dictates the policy and the military follows it. Their policies are ineffective because they are interested in delaying the war.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#26

Mexico, along with Russia, are the two most notorious mafia states. And notice the problems have been getting worse as the amount of oil diminishes, which was predicted. This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. There will be even more refugees, too, because of this.

I don't understand why they don't upgrade their methods for the 21st century and get into legality. I'm sure they would be quite successful in pharma/opioids/tabacco/gambling businesses. There would be no need to use axes on average people.

“I don't understand why they don't upgrade their methods for the 21st century and get into legality.“

Are referring to the U.S? This partially started when drugs found a market in U.S.

If you’re referring to Mexico, well we’re U.S. slave and a conservative country with a broken government. Maybe I just lost hope of my home country.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#27
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. Just FYI, not everyone on HN is from US.

English lacks a 'we' form that separates "me and all the other people" from "you and I". I think the poster meant the former. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clusivity

Interesting, I grew up with have inclusive/exclusive forms in Indonesian but never really thought about how it would really help in situations like this!

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#28
post #25

This story collapses a lot of popular narratives. That peoples in USA buying drugs are the drivers of violence in Mexico. That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear.

It starts before that.

The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 caused many opium poppy planters to move to Mexico.

During WW1, WW2, the high demand for opioid-based analgesics like morphine resulted in increased opium planting.

Why were there opium poppy planters in the US in the first place? Opium poppy is not a plant that is not endemic to the Americas. It starts with the opium wars, where the British fought to force China into tolerating their opium trade at the cost of millions of people becoming addicted.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#29
post #25

This story collapses a lot of popular narratives. That peoples in USA buying drugs are the drivers of violence in Mexico. That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear.

> That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear.

I wonder, however, if drugs had never become illegal would a major crime organization managed to form in the first place?

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. Just FYI, not everyone on HN is from US.

Sure, but the entire world is/can-be affected by the actions of the US as a whole.

What an understatement. For better or worse.
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