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SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#331

Post by shanghaiaway »

drawkbox wrote: post #96
smacktoward wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Gates is gone, and Microsoft is still here. And Jobs is gone, but Apple is still here. As the saying goes, the graveyards are full of indispensable men.

If Jobs hadn't of gone back to Apple in '97 after being fired in '85, they wouldn't be here today. Jobs was their last hope after Sculley made them mediocre. Apple was down to relying on a 150m investment from Microsoft in the late 90s (Aug 1997), that they probably only got because of Jobs [1]. I'd also argue everything that Jobs had created at NeXTSTEP became Apple and saved them [2]. The technology made it all the…

Tesla is a marketing-driven company.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#332

Post by ubernostrum »

djsumdog wrote: post #68
chollida1 wrote: post #6

This comment I made a few weeks ago is coming alot closer to the truth than I would have expected. I hope for Space X and Tesla's sake that the reports of a directory and Executive ban don't come true. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18016250#18016292 SpaceX is doing well, Tesla has pulled itself back from the brink and may actually become a profitable car company. All Elon had to do was keep his head down and n…

I'd hope the company itself would be fine. I really hate this idea of the grand visionary. A good friend of mine who is a mechanical engineer despises Musk. I listened to a bit of his Joe Regan interview and when Regan asked him how he has the time to do all of the things he does, there are smoke jokes about him being an alien, but not once did he say, "Well I have an amazing team of engineers" and credit all the tho…

I really hate this idea of the grand visionary.

Which is amusing in the case of Musk. As I've said over and over, his approach is to find an industry where most or all of the hard, expensive fundamental R&D has already been done (and paid for) by someone else, and then start a company to incrementally improve it and promise vast cost reductions from economies of scale.

That's what SpaceX is. That's what Tesla is. There's not really staggering heart-breaking Copernican-revolution work being done at either company. They're just applying incremental improvement and economies of scale to problems where the hard fundamental work was already done. The idea that it requires some special sort of unbelievable genius to come up with that plan, or that it's impossible to do without this specific (alleged) genius, is baffling to me.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#333

Post by rayiner »

colordrops wrote: post #287
rayiner wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It cannot be argued that Tesla pushed forward both electric cars and self-driving vehicles as a major force (original self-driving push was a DoD X-Prize Sure it can. Tesla has done basically nothing for self-driving cars, it's technology is glorified lane-keeping. As to electric cars, the Model S is the third best-selling electric car ever, after the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Volt. Both of those cars were introduc…

You are missing a few facts that completely oppose the point of your comment: the model S is not Tesla's first electric - that would be the Roadster, which was release a couple years before the other cars you mention. Chevy Volt is not full electric and can't get very far on pure electric. And the Nissan Leaf is a glorified golf cart that doesn't surpass 100 miles on a charge. The frank truth is that both the better…

The Volt was also not GM’s first EV. Both the Roadster and GM’s EV 1 were niche products. You can call the Leaf a golf cart, but it’s sold more vehicles than the Model S. Yes the Model S has more performance, but it’s also a vastly more expensive car.

As to other manufacturers, they were “building up electric manufacturing capability” before Tesla. Toyota was selling thr first RAV 4 EV before Tesla was even founded. Tesla didn’t have the first EV. It may have the best EV now, but that hardly says anything—it’s much easier to make a $50-100,000 EV than on at a mainstream price point. The remaining question is who is on track to create products in the form factors people care about (not sports sedans) at prices they can afford? At this rate, that’s not Tesla either.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#334

Post by drawkbox »

shanghaiaway wrote: post #331
drawkbox wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Jobs hadn't of gone back to Apple in '97 after being fired in '85, they wouldn't be here today. Jobs was their last hope after Sculley made them mediocre. Apple was down to relying on a 150m investment from Microsoft in the late 90s (Aug 1997), that they probably only got because of Jobs [1]. I'd also argue everything that Jobs had created at NeXTSTEP became Apple and saved them [2]. The technology made it all the…

Tesla is a marketing-driven company.

Tesla is a product company, they do little, if any, marketing.

Find me a Tesla owner that doesn't love their car.

Tesla is an engineering led product company first, both for the good of the environment and for making products that people love.

Not many could have built what Elon Musk built, if any others today at the time and survive the Great Recession or get people excited about the product.

Tesla has that excitement that nostalgic leaders like Disney, Ford, Jobs, 'World's Fair' type of innovative excitement had in the past.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#335

Post by Palptine »

ble wrote: post #255
dwighttk wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's banned from leading Tesla, perhaps he'll start mucking SpaceX up with his newly available attention.

I'd like to think Shotwell et. al already have a pretty well established convention as to how much Musk is allowed to intervene directly in operation and decision-making. He can pretend that he knows better than automotive engineers but I think his self-awareness is better calibrated when it comes to rocketry.

He definitely has a lot of say when it comes to the technical details of rocket design. Mueller told the story about how on Merlin engine he insisted on utilizing fluid Dynamics to control the fuel instead of using valves, when everyone else disagreed, and the idea worked really well. And you know that there is no way Musk can fire Mueller and keep SpaceX so he doesn't need to brown nose Musk.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#337

Post by ubernostrum »

jiveturkey wrote: post #319

Page 21: "Prayer for Relief" interesting that this kind of language is accepted legalese par. 80.IV and 80.V seeks both civil penalties and removal from office. Is it feasible that Musk/Tesla can negotiate only penalties, thus keeping him on the board? Given Musk's position of power over the board, and importance to the company, I could see the board agreeing to it, but would the government.

Don't forget that in a handful of places literal prayer is still part of legal procedure. For example:

https://guernseypress.com/news/2016/12/15/man-raises-clameur...

The procedure used there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clameur_de_haro

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#338

Post by louisswiss »

pastor_elm wrote: post #220
krapp wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are responsible for the success of these companies in the same way cells are responsible for the formation of a human being. So... entirely responsible?

Yo missed my point. Nobody walks around thanking their skin cells for existing.

You would if not thanking them meant you suddenly lost 10% of them though...

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#339

Post by agumonkey »

Animats wrote: post #246

He definitely lost it. And it's going to cost him. This is an open and shut case against Musk. He definitely sent out that tweet. Yes, maybe just not enough sleep and too many drugs. Not a good excuse. Tesla might do better with a new CEO. They're past the vision stage. Tesla's problems today are all those of running a big auto plant. Musk might do better focusing on Space-X.

Of all weird things he did, that tweet felt the less induced by mean emotions (unlike the issues with soccer team rescue). I believe he was angry at people using the system to see someone doing his best to make a good thing. Sad.
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