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SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

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Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#311

Post by huebnerob »

noobiemcfoob wrote: post #171
Analemma_ wrote: post #110

How many different lawsuits and investigations is Elon now the subject of? There’s this, the separate DOJ investigation, the lawsuits from private investors who exited their short positions, the libel suit from the British guy, possibly an Air Force investigation about the weed... am I missing any? Even if every one of these turns out to be nbd, I wonder if it makes sense to remove Elon just on the grounds that a) it…

Isn't that kind of the point of piling lawsuits onto someone promising that you see as competition?

Yes, exactly, I win every time because I just make my competition shoot itself in the foot over and over, very simple.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#312

Post by jacquesm »

sqquuiiiddd wrote: post #283
jacquesm wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was with you right up to here: > Musk might do better focusing on Space-X. Maybe. As long as he does not claim the CEO slot.

It’s a private company

Guess who owns the bulk of the stock?

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#313

Post by dragontamer »

Cshelton wrote: post #29
dawhizkid wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and irrepairable loss of investor trust

I don't believe so. I have been a Tesla owner and investor for a long time now. I know where Elon comes from, what missions and goals he has stated for years now, and what he is trying to accomplish. I promise you, Elon legitimately thought there would be an opportunity to go private again. He's said he wanted to do so in the past, and even has said they never wanted to go public, but were left with no choice. I don'…

> I promise you, Elon legitimately thought there would be an opportunity to go private again.

That's cool and all. And that's probably why the DoJ case will fail (at least, I'm betting that the DoJ case will turn up nothing).

But this is the SEC: they only have to prove recklessness or negligence. That Musk was NEGLIGENT in his ability to properly vet the information before tweeting.

In particular:

> Musk knew or was reckless in not knowing that each of these statements was false and/or misleading because he did not have an adequate basis in fact for his assertions.

https://www.scribd.com/document/389617063/United-States-Secu...

As a CEO, his responsibility is to report on the news of the company to his investors in a responsible manner. If Musk is negligent and/or reckless about the facts, then that is ALONE sufficient to have him removed from the position.

That's the thing about this SEC case. They do not have to prove scienter (criminal knowledge of wrongdoing) or malice. They only have to prove recklessness or negligence.

EDIT: Upon further review, paragraph 79 claims that Elon Musk has scienter of these events. So the SEC is in fact claiming that Elon Musk deliberately knew that making these statements were wrong, and did it anyway. This is above and beyond "reckless" or "negligent" !!

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#315

Post by tareqak »

CNBC article: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/27/tesla-falls-4percent-on-repo...

SEC Press release: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-219

United States Securities and Exchange Commission v. Musk [PDF uploaded to Scribd by CNBC]: https://www.scribd.com/document/389617063/United-States-Secu...

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#316

Post by tomatocracy »

jjdag wrote: post #293

While there isn't much doubt that Musk is at fault here, I wonder how a business owner should react when perceiving that his company is threatened by some journalists and (social) media influencers who seemingly have ties with short sellers. I understand that shorting helps stabilize markets but in this case with Tesla being the most shorted stock it seems that forces were at work to stain the company's reputation in…

Prove them wrong? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not a lot you can do about that. Trying to do something about it that goes beyond saying, politely, "well, we disagree" usually ends up making you look a lot worse.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#317

Post by [deleted] »

briatx wrote: post #279
mimerme wrote: post #179

Does anyone else find it amazing that these days social media posts are becoming official government documentation? Who would've thought that the very platforms where we once just shared pictures of cats are starting to run our our elections and stock markets.

Tesla made it easy for them. From the SEC filing: > 13. On November 5, 2013, Tesla publicly filed a Form 8-K with the Commission stating that it intended to use Musk’s Twitter account as a means of announcing material information to the public about Tesla and its products and services and has encouraged investors to review the information about Tesla published by Musk via his Twitter account.

[deleted]

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#318

Post by reanimated »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #170
stcredzero wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Apple products different now that Jobs are gone? Yes. Jobs as local despot acted as a curb to bad decisions. Jobs had a vision which acted as a countervailing force to keep Apple from being completely sucked into being a money grubbing luxury goods company. the core people that make and design all their overpriced, planned obsolescence devices are still there, often uncredited, while everyone else likes to focus…

I don’t think Apple products are any different without Jobs, the problem is they’re nothing new either. With Jobs you knew he loved and lived technology and was always looking for cool new things to do with it. Most of his product launches did just that and brought some excitement about possibilities. Current Apple products are meticulously, exactingly designed and built, but they’re losing the excitement and expecta…

but they’re losing the excitement and expectation of something truly new and original

It's just the technology which has matured. The innovation slows and becomes more incremental so certainly the excitement goes down. Jobs wouldn't have been able to change that. Maybe the quality of new Macs would be better or maybe he would have pushed his engineers more to make more elegant way to solve the notch problem, but that's it. Don't make a mistake, he was insightful executive, not the miraculous engineer inventing new technologies. At this stage of the company he would probably just pushed more to the services and content deals.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#319

Post by jiveturkey »

Page 21: "Prayer for Relief"

interesting that this kind of language is accepted legalese

par. 80.IV and 80.V seeks both civil penalties and removal from office.

Is it feasible that Musk/Tesla can negotiate only penalties, thus keeping him on the board? Given Musk's position of power over the board, and importance to the company, I could see the board agreeing to it, but would the government.

Re: SEC Sues Musk and Seeks Ban for His Tweets on Go-Private Deal

#320

Post by jczhang »

jonknee wrote: post #181
Cshelton wrote: post #13

I'm willing to bet the only thing that will come of this is a fine and a slap on the wrist.

Why? He's a huge liability to the company every day he remains with this hanging over his head. The SEC directly says he "violated, and unless restrained and enjoined will continue to violate, Section 10(b) of the Exchange Act". Other than a fine, they're pushing for him to be barred from serving as an officer of a public company.

Because this is simply how SEC politics work. It rarely goes that far, and it's like 99% a fine. They don't actually have That much power beyond that.
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