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How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

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Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#41

Post by paganel »

reaperducer wrote: post #12
diego_moita wrote: post #9

And so what??? The US pried the textile and locomotives industries from the UK, check the history of Samuel Slater[1]. Same happened for Japan under Meiji restoration. India and Brazil do the same for pharmaceutical patents, because they're too poor to afford paying them. Stealing IP will happen, no matter what treaties and governments try to do. For poor countries it is a path they just don't have the luxury of givi…

The US pried the textile and locomotives industries from the UK This is the sort of argument that an eight-year-old makes to his mother, and the mother responds, "If Jimmy jumped off a bridge, would you?" I don't know if you're an American or not, but there's an very common expression: Two wrongs don't make a right.

It helped the US become an industrialist behemoth, and as such I’d say it also helped the rest of the world (having more industrialized nations compared to fewer was a plus for human development, in the great scheme of things). As such I’d say that the eight-year old would be right.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#42

Post by Aunche »

reaperducer wrote: post #12
diego_moita wrote: post #9

And so what??? The US pried the textile and locomotives industries from the UK, check the history of Samuel Slater[1]. Same happened for Japan under Meiji restoration. India and Brazil do the same for pharmaceutical patents, because they're too poor to afford paying them. Stealing IP will happen, no matter what treaties and governments try to do. For poor countries it is a path they just don't have the luxury of givi…

The US pried the textile and locomotives industries from the UK This is the sort of argument that an eight-year-old makes to his mother, and the mother responds, "If Jimmy jumped off a bridge, would you?" I don't know if you're an American or not, but there's an very common expression: Two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't think they're saying that it's OK, just that IP theft is inevitable until China becomes rich enough to care about protecting their own IP. You can't judge a country for doing what any other country would do if they were poorer.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#44

Post by wang_li »

triangleman wrote: post #33
YorkshireSeason wrote: post #11

There's a gentlemen's agreement between nations that this is permissible for poor nations. China is no longer poor and now must act like a wealthy nation and accept IP laws.

According to Wikipedia[0] China GDP(PPP)/capita is $16,624, just below Dominican Republic and Iraq. Not sure that's "wealthy" quite yet. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...

When an authoritarian government enforces policies that lead to massive wealth inequality it becomes pointless to measure things on a per capita basis. If China had policies in place to lift the quality of life of the majority of the population it might be acceptable to measure stuff on a per capita basis.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#45

Post by Aunche »

HaloZero wrote: post #32
Leary wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Francis Cabot Lowell, who was instrumental behind the industrialization of the US, visited textile plants in the UK and committed their designs to memory, which were later introduced to the famed Lowell textile plants in Massachusetts. At the time (1826), America's per capita GDP was $2,460, which is 68% of the UK's per capita GDP of $3,600. Today, China's per capita GDP is $16,000, or 29% of of the US's per capita G…

Other Western nations are also behind the US in terms of GDP per capita but not as much as China. Japan is about $39,000, Germany is $41,000, France is like $37,000. But Poland which is part of the EU is $12,000 as well. Russia is like $9000 per capita.

Poland can't get away with violating IP laws, since they're part of the EU and benefit from that relationship. Russia is basically doing the same thing as China, but they don't export enough for it to really matter.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#46

Post by aaaaaaaaaab »

YorkshireSeason wrote: post #11

There's a gentlemen's agreement between nations that this is permissible for poor nations. China is no longer poor and now must act like a wealthy nation and accept IP laws.

As they say in international relations: “or else?”

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#47

Post by seanmcdirmid »

diego_moita wrote: post #9

And so what??? The US pried the textile and locomotives industries from the UK, check the history of Samuel Slater[1]. Same happened for Japan under Meiji restoration. India and Brazil do the same for pharmaceutical patents, because they're too poor to afford paying them. Stealing IP will happen, no matter what treaties and governments try to do. For poor countries it is a path they just don't have the luxury of givi…

Morality in business is a fool’s errand. Just that it puts recent actions into context: if stealing IP is amoral, then so are trade sanctions and other kinds of economic warfare. In the end, it’s only about our relationship, just like it was between the USA and the UK in the 1800s.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#48

Post by chillacy »

weberc2 wrote: post #30
coliveira wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that this is not jumping from a bridge, it is the tried and tested way to develop a nation's industry. Moreover, it is very funny hearing this coming from Americans who are in one side accepting that this is wrong and then in the same breath denouncing it being done to themselves!

There's no contradiction; the standards in the 1800s were much lower across the globe. These standards are no longer acceptible today.

By whose standard? It’s awfully convenient for the United States to reap the benefits of “lower standards” and then shut the gates after they no longer need those lower standards.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#49

Post by natvert »

It's hard for me to believe that all the smart, capable company executives involved in planning and execution of operations in and around China are oblivious to IP risks.

There is an obvious upside of operating in Asia, both cheap labor (though now decreasing) and strong work ethic coupled with access to a huge market.

It seems to me that execs understand and take a calculated risk when they choose to do business in various parts of the world. If they cannot make this calculation, they should not be running a company.

More than anything else, the attitude displayed in this article appears to me as an attempt to defer (or pass to the public) the consequences of the above calculated choices. If not directly, through a trade war that will hurt all Americans. All the while, these companies keep their financial gain private, in the pockets of execs and shareholders.

There is something to be said for protecting IP in the interest of a country's defense, but the technology that qualifies for this type of protection should be the subject of public debate, not a president's whim. Furthermore, unless the companies that own this IP are taken over by the state, company execs will always be free to make the decision re. operating in Asia and between the associated IP risks and capital gain.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#50

Post by bduerst »

diego_moita wrote: post #9

And so what??? The US pried the textile and locomotives industries from the UK, check the history of Samuel Slater[1]. Same happened for Japan under Meiji restoration. India and Brazil do the same for pharmaceutical patents, because they're too poor to afford paying them. Stealing IP will happen, no matter what treaties and governments try to do. For poor countries it is a path they just don't have the luxury of givi…

This is textbook whataboutism. Samuel slater shouldn't have done that, and neither should China.
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