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'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

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Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#81

Post by berbec »

kibwen wrote: post #72
berbec wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A notable example of this is Mario 64, where the lowest stars possible category has been renamed multiple times as ways of defeating bowser with fewer and fewer stars are discovered. I believe we are at 0.

And now that the star count is at zero (which humans have pulled off in runs), there is a distinction between "two-key zero-star" and "one-key zero-star", of which the latter is likely only possible in TAS. Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5j6l9ULxmI

"likely only possible in TAS" has this habit of becoming possible.

SethBling turning Super Mario World into Super Flappy Birds on a console comes to mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB6eY73sLV0

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#82

Post by EForEndeavour »

dzdt wrote: post #10

There is something amazing about artforms when the performers and spectators have an appreciation for the subtlest details. Mario speedruns are an oddball artform surely, but right now it has enough of a community to appreciate those details. For example, from the article I gather to "clip the wall to warp into the first level of world four" is a well-known and discussed precision move in the genre. It reminds me a l…

Your observation of hyper-focus upon the tiniest nuances of two different art forms reminded me of the obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/915/

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#83

Post by danso »

ATsch wrote: post #77
kchoudhu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought glitches were not allowed?

It depends on the game and category. Category rules are established by the community and the top priority is runs being fun to watch and play. Usually, any glitches are fair game. However, if any game-breaking glitches are found, the category will usually be split into one that allows and one that disallows the glitch. For example, Portal speedruns were split into "out of bounds" and "inbounds" categories once glitch…

Same situation for Super Metroid, which seems to be one of the most popular games for speedrunning. The "anything goes" category seems to be "Any% Glitched" [0], which allows for techniques that modify in-game memory values -- the current record is 12m19s. The most popular category, and fun to watch (IMO) is "Any%" [1], which does not allow for such memory tricks and has a current record of 41m18s.

But the latter is still not quite a "glitchless" run, based on the average person's definition of "glitch". For example, I doubt it was intended behavior for Kraid to die after 4 missiles [2] based on the player shooting him during a specific animation. I never played SM much beyond beating it as a kid, but I enjoy its speedruns because besides the variety of techniques and clutch moments required, there's at least one boss who behaves randomly, and requires the player to improvise. Also, in the course of new records being set, there have been a variety of strategies (e.g. different decisions on which path to take) employed, and there still seems to be room to discover more optimal strategies.

[0] https://wiki.supermetroid.run/Any%25_Glitched

[1] https://wiki.supermetroid.run/Any%25

[2] https://youtu.be/ezFcybTLOOE?t=27m29s

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#84

Post by kibwen »

berbec wrote: post #81
kibwen wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now that the star count is at zero (which humans have pulled off in runs), there is a distinction between "two-key zero-star" and "one-key zero-star", of which the latter is likely only possible in TAS. Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5j6l9ULxmI

"likely only possible in TAS" has this habit of becoming possible. SethBling turning Super Mario World into Super Flappy Birds on a console comes to mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB6eY73sLV0

Exactly why I made the conscious choice to use the word "likely". :)

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#85

Post by dragontamer »

jamespo wrote: post #53
beaconstudios wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tool Assisted Speedrun. It means you perform input to the game programmatically meaning you can set the input perfectly on a per-frame basis.

what is the point of that

Because NASCAR is fun, even if you are going at super-human speeds. And there is skill in maneuvering a car at super-human speeds.

TAS players play the game frame-by-frame and seek theoretical perfection.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#86

Post by PurpleBoxDragon »

astura wrote: post #64
kchoudhu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought glitches were not allowed?

Speed runner come up with different "categories" for runs. The most common is "Any %," also the most basic, it means finish the game, usually anything goes, glitch away. You can also have no glitches category, 100% complete, no warps, no powerups, all s, etc. Sky's the limit. The community creates the categories.

My favorite are randomized speed runs, where everyone gets the same randomized version and have to speed run it against each other. Normally these are done as real time races and the results of the randomization aren't known to the player until they start. Not all games support it (think games like Zelda and Metroid where you have to collect powerups to push get past obstacles to collect more powerups to get past more obstacles). The randomizer has to make sure the game is still beatable (so no locking a required item behind an obstacle that requires the item). It is also an area that TAS can't help and it has more to do with strategy than physical perfect button presses. Also, since every time you uncover a new randomized item it changes what is the most potential optimized path, it require a deeper knowledge of the game compared to speed running where there is normally a given optimized path that people compete against.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#87

Post by darepublic »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #38
baby wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What proves that he's not switching to a TAS from times to times?

If it needs to be verified, a camera on his hands would be enough for experts to be able to see that. Also if the inputs are visualised on screen.

What if he uses prerecorded footage of his hands, created by using some kind of TAS programmed to perform a 4:55 run in human style and then outputs those button presses to a screen. So instead of playing the game, he just presses what he sees on the screen. It would take a lot of work but would arguably be a lot easier than actually accomplishing the real run. Then, the footage is just TAS footage and the camera on his hands is also prerecorded. Then he just has to read out the comments on stream as this charade is going on and make sly responses to it

I guess my point is that, although I trust the veracity of this record, one should not underestimate the potential for cheating.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#89

Post by kchoudhu »

kibwen wrote: post #75
kchoudhu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever see this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpk2tdsPh0A This guy literally has a PhD in SM64. It's insanely complicated, and surprisingly lucid.

This video is legendary. It's like sitting in on a university course on the technical details of the physics and programming in Mario 64.

I tend to skip around videos.

When it went from "exploit this glitch" to a graph of "registering p-q alignment", I knew I would have to slow down and watch the entire thing.

Boy am I glad I did.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#90

Post by reificator »

astura wrote: post #64
kchoudhu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought glitches were not allowed?

Speed runner come up with different "categories" for runs. The most common is "Any %," also the most basic, it means finish the game, usually anything goes, glitch away. You can also have no glitches category, 100% complete, no warps, no powerups, all s, etc. Sky's the limit. The community creates the categories.

Any% refers to completion percentage, not the number of glitches allowed. But yes, some categories allow for glitches and some don't.

Over the years the Super Mario Bros community in particular has become more accepting of glitches, as otherwise both TAS and human runs would have hit the limit of how fast is possible. By allowing glitches there is now always a possibility that the runs can be further improved.

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