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'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

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Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#61

Post by MiddleEndian »

kod wrote: post #56
MiddleEndian wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a regular fan of MMA and occasional watcher of boxing, I can't think of a single example of the sports' governing bodies overturning a corrupt result, even in the Olympics. Occasionally judges will be fired later; that's it. PEDs are enforced almost sporadically; I wish they didn't bother. Edit: By corrupt result I meant corrupt or inaccurate judging.

Cormier vs Jones 2

That fight was overturned due to Jones popping for PEDs, not due to improper judging.

When I said "corrupt result" I meant corrupt judging. Sorry I was unclear.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#62

Post by wingerlang »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #52
daxterspeed wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the top left of the video feed there's supposed to be an active input display (showing what buttons are being pressed on the controller). At this point in the video he fixes the input display, causing the capture of the timer to stagger a little bit. As you'll notice by the end of the video the timer doesn't actually display 4:55.913, even though that's his record time - this is because the entire run has been re-…

How did he know, live, that he'd beaten the time?

Probably the rough timer he uses combined with knowing that he nailed most tricks.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#63

Post by jMyles »

mikepurvis wrote: post #47
ilitirit wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It means he can't physically get a better time ... using the same techniques the TAS does . It's possible (although unlikely) that a new glitch/exploit could be discovered that allows for faster times.

This is, as always, a local maxima— new strats may come along which change everything again. Summoning Salt's WRP videos do a great job of showing how the strategies for a particular game evolve over time as new things are uncovered: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtUbO6rBht0daVIOGML3c8w/vid...

Summoning Salt makes absolutely incredible content. I'm interested to see how (if at all) he covers this event.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#64

Post by astura »

kchoudhu wrote: post #43
ilitirit wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It means he can't physically get a better time ... using the same techniques the TAS does . It's possible (although unlikely) that a new glitch/exploit could be discovered that allows for faster times.

I thought glitches were not allowed?

Speed runner come up with different "categories" for runs.

The most common is "Any %," also the most basic, it means finish the game, usually anything goes, glitch away.

You can also have no glitches category, 100% complete, no warps, no powerups, all s, etc. Sky's the limit. The community creates the categories.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#65

Post by kibwen »

mikepurvis wrote: post #47
ilitirit wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It means he can't physically get a better time ... using the same techniques the TAS does . It's possible (although unlikely) that a new glitch/exploit could be discovered that allows for faster times.

This is, as always, a local maxima— new strats may come along which change everything again. Summoning Salt's WRP videos do a great job of showing how the strategies for a particular game evolve over time as new things are uncovered: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtUbO6rBht0daVIOGML3c8w/vid...

I came here to paste the link to Summoning Salt, and an upvote alone isn't enough to emphasize how much I recommend his channel. Here's the link to his retrospective on Super Mario Bros specifically (now a bit out of date, of course): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdAkY7RfajY

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#66

Post by trey-jones »

songshu wrote: post #50
kennyadam wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a guy on YouTube & Twitch, who posts N64 Goldeneye speedrunning breakdowns at the start of each month. Very specific niche but oddly interesting! RWhiteGoose is his username.

I love RWhiteGoose and the GoldenEye speedrun community generally. There's a core group of 50 or so people who've spent literally man-decades optimizing that game. If you haven't seen his "speedlore" series on YouTube I recommend it, he goes through the history of optimizations of a particular level. There are many parallels with the experience of optimizing software systems and the cycle of breakthrough and consolid…

I am not a speedrunner and I don't really follow any speedrunning community, but this takes me back to 1998 doing the Facility in time for the Invincibility cheat. If I still remember it 20 years later, I must have done it a few times.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#67

Post by Pigo »

colordrops wrote: post #22
dzdt wrote: post #10

There is something amazing about artforms when the performers and spectators have an appreciation for the subtlest details. Mario speedruns are an oddball artform surely, but right now it has enough of a community to appreciate those details. For example, from the article I gather to "clip the wall to warp into the first level of world four" is a well-known and discussed precision move in the genre. It reminds me a l…

Naw, clipping the wall is taking advantage of a well known intentionally created bug where you walk through a wall to get to an area to skip levels. Every kid playing the game back in the 80s knew about it.

I think you're talking about the warping to the negative worlds. In the 80's we found out about a wall clipping method to get to the first warp tubes, but you ended up going to negative world numbers which never have an ending.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#68

Post by moate »

Dowwie wrote: post #7

This trivializes my childhood accomplishment. I don't like it! It blows my mind how speed runners learn to exploit the inner workings of a game, from timing hacks of the RNG to positioning actors on the screen to unlock design weaknesses. While it takes a lot of skill and many hours of practice to pull off these exploits, advancing through a game at record speeds through exploits takes away from the experience that w…

Think of the game as a deck of cards. You liked playing poker with the deck. These people are playing solitaire. It's a different game entirely using the same pieces. Your goal (to have fun) and their goal (to do something faster than any other person on the planet) both provided you with a sense of accomplishment, but you were never really trying to do the same things

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#69

Post by bunderbunder »

ilitirit wrote: post #24
mrob wrote: post #9

>When Kosmic says he's tied with the TAS run at 4-1, that means his inputs are matched up exactly with the program's and he can't physically do any better. It means he can't physically get a better time, but it does not mean his inputs are matched up exactly with the TAS. SMB1 level transitions are based around the "frame rule", which means you don't advance to the next level until the number of elapsed frames from t…

> It means he can't physically get a better time ... using the same techniques the TAS does . It's possible (although unlikely) that a new glitch/exploit could be discovered that allows for faster times.

There aren't any techniques he can use that aren't available to a TAS runner. TAS runners aren't just using reinforcement learning to let a computer learn how to play; they're thinking about possible techniques and glitches, and specifically programming their tools to try and exploit them.

What's common, especially in the SMB speed running community, is that the human and tool-assisted runners loosely collaborate. e.g., if one of the humans has an idea, before they spend days or months trying to figure out for themselves if it's even workable, they'll get someone to inexpensively proof-of-concept it with a tool-assisted speed run.

Re: 'Super Mario Bros.' speedrunner hits nearly inhuman 4:55 world record

#70

Post by berbec »

songshu wrote: post #48
kchoudhu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought glitches were not allowed?

If a glitch is severe enough it will result in a new category of competition being created. A glitch that saves a second here or there would likely be accepted in the main category. Frequently speedrun games also have categories for how much has been completed in the run, like Any% meaning you just got the end credits up, or 100% meaning you collected all the items on the way or whatever

A notable example of this is Mario 64, where the lowest stars possible category has been renamed multiple times as ways of defeating bowser with fewer and fewer stars are discovered. I believe we are at 0.
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