Oracle’s Java 11 trap • Hacker News Board

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#51

Post by _Codemonkeyism » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 12:41 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #15

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #6

Currently happy about Azul OpenJDK.

'Zulu', right? What's their angle?

It's the default from sdkman I think.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#52

Post by JustSomeNobody » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 12:41 PM UTC

This is going to come off sounding a bit like victim blaming, but seriously, any business large or small must have a person or people whose responsibility it is to audit all installed software so that nobody gets into a situation such as described in the article.

A business cant afford to let devs just install software willy-nilly like.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#53

Post by codemusings » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 12:41 PM UTC

baud147258 wrote: post #7

Java 11? At work we haven't even started to look at the migration from Java 8...

You won't be for a long time either because the introduction of modules and the removal of the Unsafe class broke a lot of frameworks apparently.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#54

Post by Cthulhu_ » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 12:42 PM UTC

JoshuaAshton wrote: post #24

Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. They're actively hostile to the whole tech community and their entire business model is based on trapping people into paying for things by not making their licenses clear or changing their licenses. I don't know why anyone would use any software made by Oracle these days, the alternatives and open implementations of their own systems ten…

> by not making their licenses clear

How is that? The license is pretty clear, as stated in the article:

> You may not: use the Programs for any data processing or any commercial, production, or internal business purposes other than developing, testing, prototyping, and demonstrating your Application;

If you cannot understand that language you should not download or use the JDK.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#55

Post by eloisant » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #4

tyler274 wrote: post #2

as long as openjdk remains open i dont mind

As long as OpenJDK remains open and maintained for a reasonable length of time , I don't mind. Right now it's looking good, but only thanks to Red Hat (et al.) and not Oracle.

So many companies have a vested interest in maintaining Java alive (Google, IBM, etc.) that I'm not too worried about maintenance of OpenJDK.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#56

Post by crispyambulance » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 12:44 PM UTC

ronkwan wrote: post #37

there is a GPL2 version of jdk11 here, does it make any difference? http://jdk.java.net/11

    > http://jdk.java.net/11

That's an "OpenJDK" build provided by Oracle.

But it is easy to get mixed up since it doesn't ACTUALLY say "OpenJDK" on that page.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#57

Post by hocuspocus » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 12:45 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #15

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #6

Currently happy about Azul OpenJDK.

'Zulu', right? What's their angle?

Azul sells their own high-performance Java runtime (Zing).

Taking a guess here, they probably realized there's demand among their customer base for plain OpenJDK builds with cheaper and/or more reasonable support offerings compared to Oracle's. And once you need to deliver those builds, it doesn't cost too much to let just anyone use them.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#58

Post by nonconvergent » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 12:46 PM UTC

dzdt wrote: post #10

baud147258 wrote: post #7

Java 11? At work we haven't even started to look at the migration from Java 8...

We just made it TO Java 8.

Java 8 is EOL in January for public support/security patches. Java 7 was EOL in 2015. What have you been doing for 3 years?

I could guess, because I've been at companies doing the same. Active development and support on the product, but no time for tech debt.

Java 9 and up I understand people getting frustrated with a more frequent LTS release and these weird microreleases every year.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#59

Post by Cthulhu_ » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 12:46 PM UTC

maaaats wrote: post #31

wheresvic1 wrote: post #16

I'm not sure Java is worth the effort at this point. If I'm going to have to keep updating every 6 months, I would rather use Go, which seems to have all that Java has to offer + the backing of a huge corporation.

Why do you have to "keep updating every 6 months"? Lots of projects stuck on java6, 7 or 8 without updating for years.

That's probably a misconception based on the new Oracle JDK release and support cycles; new release every 6 months, at which point support for the -1 version is immediately stopped (unless you have a commercial license or something). This LTS version is probably different (hence the name LTS), but it's also commercial.

Anyway it's a misconception because it only applies to the Oracle JDK, OpenJDK still follows a different support structure I believe.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#60

Post by cesarb » Wed, Sep 26, 2018, 12:46 PM UTC

Leace wrote: post #49

floatboth wrote: post #9

> Download Oracle JDK (because that is what you've always done, and it is what the web-search tells you) What I've always done is install OpenJDK from the system's package manager :P

And that's good that package managers ship only openjdk. When I migrated to Linux I didn't know better but as "openjdk" was easier to install than Oracle JDK I used "openjdk". It turns out it works very well, actually I can't tell the difference.

Unfortunately, many people add a repository with Oracle JDK to their package managers and install the JDK from there, due to some perceived better compatibility and/or extra bug fixes. (And in my experience, this is true for the Java plugin; the "official" plugin seems to work better than the IcedTea plugin.)