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Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

bloomberg.com

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Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#101

Post by zimablue »

anomaly_ wrote: post #32
antr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RoW: Good luck defending arbitrary behaviour in front of a court

As opposed to the EU’s totally non-arbitrary action against US technology multinationals from a tax and competition perspective?

Think about what you're saying. If you read British history, the empire before this one, we used military dominance to force China to allow our companies to deal opium to their society, totally ravaging it. You're makinga similar argument except instead of opium it's surveillance capitalism. Whether or not you think SC is bad, it's hard to justify why countries shouldn't be allowed to take their own approach to what's allowed through their borders. And why countries should allow companies with natural monopolies and mayb massive profit margins to basically milk their citizens. Honestly I wish the EU /really/ did tech protectionism.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#102

Post by NeedMoreTea »

grecy wrote: post #95

> The cost of defying American sanctions can be steep: in 2015, BNP Paribas SA, the French bank, paid a penalty of almost $9 billion for violating U.S. sanctions against Iran, Cuba and Sudan I'm cruious, who imposes that fine and how do they enforce payment? Can the US Government FORCE a French Bank to pay them a fine? Surely a French bank could just say "no thanks".

They're one of the world's largest banks with presence globally. Not only do they have presence in US financial centres they have US subsidiaries.

Plenty of places to send the bailiffs to, or whatever the US equivalent is.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#103

Post by miracle2k »

snaky wrote: post #38
antr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RoW: Good luck defending arbitrary behaviour in front of a court

I couldn't find the word 'court' in https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2018/08/285043.htm

Certainly sanctioned or fined European banks would have the ability to challenge the measures in a US court.

On the other hand, sanctions on a state are usually met with an equivalent response, and the only question is how powerful the other side is. In the case of the EU, the answer is, not powerless.

Look, the US has a lot of cards to play. But randomly bullying banks who didnt do anything wrong, as per your suggestion, is not a particularly effective one, so they won't do that.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#104

Post by bodas »

snaky wrote: post #89
PunchTornado wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a European, I don't feel close to US at all at the moment.

Do you feel yourself being close to China?

As far as I can see, the EU has a neutral relationship with China but a hostile relationship with the US.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#105

Post by pgeorgi »

tragic wrote: post #49
chvid wrote: post #42

This article makes absolutely no sense. The EU chosing Iran over the US?! That is not what is going to happen over the reopened Iran deal. What is going to happen is that the EU will fall in line and Iran will be forced to withdraw its activities in Syria, Iraq, Yemen ... due to the severity of the economic hardship caused by the sanctions.

Besides which - what is Macron going to do if half the board of BNP Paribas is arrested when they land on US soil for sanctions busting? Invade? This seems like a very good way for the Europeans to learn how much of the international financial system relies on American goodwill to work as planned.

While we're considering hilarious and entirely unrealistic moves by those in power: Ask Germany (who's also part of the project) to round up Ramstein Air Base?

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#106

Post by dagw »

grecy wrote: post #95

> The cost of defying American sanctions can be steep: in 2015, BNP Paribas SA, the French bank, paid a penalty of almost $9 billion for violating U.S. sanctions against Iran, Cuba and Sudan I'm cruious, who imposes that fine and how do they enforce payment? Can the US Government FORCE a French Bank to pay them a fine? Surely a French bank could just say "no thanks".

Surely a French bank could just say "no thanks".

Sure, and lose their banking license in the US and quite probably have their US assets seized.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#107

Post by plopilop »

tragic wrote: post #59
sghiassy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s about Europe choosing sovereignty over their own international politics rather than cow towing to the US. It’s not the EU preferring Iran over the US

But if the means you choose to demonstrate your sovereignty is to defy a new wave of American sanctions on Iran, then you certainly are choosing Iran over the United States, as a brief glance at any recent news headlines will tell you. The current POTUS, and the large number of congressmen who hate Iran with a rather deranged fervour, will certainly interpret it that way.

You're twisting the narrative here. US are the one who decided to quit the deal they signed in 2015. The one defying everyone else is the US, not the EU.

So either the EU decides to submit to the US or decides to grow a spine. It appears it's the latter. Too bad for the US.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#108

Post by NeedMoreTea »

Yptur wrote: post #99
orbifold wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the UK is about to leave the team, without it the EU is significantly weaker...

Or perhaps significantly stronger. The UK was historically the naysayer of the EU, opposing more integration. Now the strongest Economies are Germany and France which are both very much in favor of a closer EU. If this leads to the EU being quicker in decision making and pooling more of their resources it could mean a big boon to the EU. On the other hand the UK used to be kind of a watchdog of the EU so that role mi…

Given the unpopularity and utter ineptitude of the UK's brexit "negotiations" I'm tempted to say might be in the process of leaving.

They're making such a mess, I would not be the least surprised to see the DUP withdraw support and a surprise election result. The Labour conference seems to be moving them towards a second referendum.

18 months ago I thought claims "it might not happen" foolish, now I'm starting to think it might not happen. :)

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#109

Post by beaconstudios »

m_eiman wrote: post #23
sbierwagen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia invades another country. You are the President of the US. Your options are: 1.) Do nothing. Poland, and the parts of Germany that used to be East Germany, might not like the long term consequences of this plan. 2.) Start a nuclear war, killing hundreds of millions of people. A few disadvantages to this plan as well. 3.) Economic sanctions. You can certainly say this will kill people by way of depressing GDP gr…

4.) Work with the international community and act together

what does that even mean? "Act together" would just take the form of sanctions, no?

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#110

Post by snaky »

bodas wrote: post #104
snaky wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel yourself being close to China?

As far as I can see, the EU has a neutral relationship with China but a hostile relationship with the US.

That's not quite neutral

> BERLIN (Reuters) - The German government is taking steps to counter a surge in Chinese bids for stakes in German technology companies, including the creation of a billion-euro fund that could rescue such firms in financial trouble, a government source told Reuters.

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