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Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

bloomberg.com

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Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#21

Post by david927 »

IBM wrote: post #14
sschueller wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the US get to unilaterally decide who gets sanctioned and who doesn't? Europe has a lot more to loose on an unstable Iran than the US and can't risk deals being undone because the US has a new regime every 4 years.

The US gets to unilaterally decide because they've underwritten global stability and security in the post-WW2 era. Europe being one of the biggest beneficiaries of that. And this isn't even me being a jingoistic American, I was born in Canada.

That's still you being a jingoistic American.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#22

Post by bambax »

IBM wrote: post #14
sschueller wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the US get to unilaterally decide who gets sanctioned and who doesn't? Europe has a lot more to loose on an unstable Iran than the US and can't risk deals being undone because the US has a new regime every 4 years.

The US gets to unilaterally decide because they've underwritten global stability and security in the post-WW2 era. Europe being one of the biggest beneficiaries of that. And this isn't even me being a jingoistic American, I was born in Canada.

The Iran problem was created by the US (and the UK) when a CIA-backed coup deposed Mosaddegh in 1953.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#23

Post by m_eiman »

sbierwagen wrote: post #8
devoply wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sanctions are a type of war on civilians. Great power adversaries are no worse than allies like Saudi Arabia. American unilateralism is evil, and it has to end. The sooner the better!

Russia invades another country. You are the President of the US. Your options are: 1.) Do nothing. Poland, and the parts of Germany that used to be East Germany, might not like the long term consequences of this plan. 2.) Start a nuclear war, killing hundreds of millions of people. A few disadvantages to this plan as well. 3.) Economic sanctions. You can certainly say this will kill people by way of depressing GDP gr…

4.) Work with the international community and act together

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#24

Post by chme »

curiousgal wrote: post #5
IBM wrote: post #3

Sanctions are one of the most powerful tools in the US toolbox short of war. In fact it's more important than war when dealing with Great Power adversaries because they have nukes. The US should aggressively block any attempt to get around it. Trump shouldn't have pulled out of the Iran deal, but preserving that power for the future is more important. Here's a good article about OFAC, the Treasury Department group th…

I've always found it fascinating to link the stand of an entire country to a single person or a group of people. For instance when we say, the U.S. has imposed X sanctions, it's weird to think that it's simply the work of a small group of people. I am doing an awful job at wording my thought, but what I am trying to say that putting a human face/name on an entire country's action makes it interesting.

Welcome the representative democracy.

When someone wants to know how americans currently think and look like, then they just take a look at their current president. /s

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#25

Post by d__k »

sbierwagen wrote: post #8
devoply wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sanctions are a type of war on civilians. Great power adversaries are no worse than allies like Saudi Arabia. American unilateralism is evil, and it has to end. The sooner the better!

Russia invades another country. You are the President of the US. Your options are: 1.) Do nothing. Poland, and the parts of Germany that used to be East Germany, might not like the long term consequences of this plan. 2.) Start a nuclear war, killing hundreds of millions of people. A few disadvantages to this plan as well. 3.) Economic sanctions. You can certainly say this will kill people by way of depressing GDP gr…

In 1)-3) you assume that US is the world's global policeman who is always right because it is right.

4) The democratic way: ask people in this "another" country and if the opinions split then restructure it: either convert it peacefully into two countries (like Czechoslovakia) or confederation/federation.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#26

Post by david927 »

snaky wrote: post #15
mrtksn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's not a clandestine operation but just a challenge to the US demands, therefore it's public? US: Don't trade with Iran because politics UK, DE, FR, CN, RU: Sorry, We like the deal we made and we would like to trade with Iran. US: If any company trades with Iran, won't be able to trade with the USA. Make your choise. UK, DE, FR, CN, RU: Okay then, we will create an infrastructure where the USA won't be able…

US: Nice. Then we will just roll the dice once a week and point our finger to random big company of yours.

The U.S. wouldn't do this because it would have no effect.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#27

Post by NicoJuicy »

snaky wrote: post #15
mrtksn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's not a clandestine operation but just a challenge to the US demands, therefore it's public? US: Don't trade with Iran because politics UK, DE, FR, CN, RU: Sorry, We like the deal we made and we would like to trade with Iran. US: If any company trades with Iran, won't be able to trade with the USA. Make your choise. UK, DE, FR, CN, RU: Okay then, we will create an infrastructure where the USA won't be able…

US: Nice. Then we will just roll the dice once a week and point our finger to random big company of yours.

Looks like a vicious circle to me

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#28

Post by badminton1 »

sschueller wrote: post #10
IBM wrote: post #3

Sanctions are one of the most powerful tools in the US toolbox short of war. In fact it's more important than war when dealing with Great Power adversaries because they have nukes. The US should aggressively block any attempt to get around it. Trump shouldn't have pulled out of the Iran deal, but preserving that power for the future is more important. Here's a good article about OFAC, the Treasury Department group th…

Why does the US get to unilaterally decide who gets sanctioned and who doesn't? Europe has a lot more to loose on an unstable Iran than the US and can't risk deals being undone because the US has a new regime every 4 years.

Imagine a wrestling match.

2 wrestlers fight for some good amount of time. When they're tired enough, a 3rd wrestler gets in and beats both.

That was World War II for the most part. After World War II, most of the world was destroyed except for the US.

After the war, the US never left. Overseas bases still exist in Germany, Japan and many other places.

They had everyone adopt a financial system (Bretton Woods) which was largely abused making the US absurdly rich for a few decades... highways, higher education for a bunch of people, space exploration, absurd wars thousands of miles away, a gigantic navy and air force, you name it.

After other countries realized it was a scam (aka "exorbitant privilege"), this golden era ended and the US started to slowly meet reality, rapidly accumulating debt.

The inevitable fate of the US is to collapse in the same way the Soviet Union did in 1989. This will likely happen before 2050 and you read it first in the comments section of HN.

Once the US collapses, the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance will be worthless and South America will be taken apart in a giant pinata party starting by the Argentinean Patagonia.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#29

Post by antr »

snaky wrote: post #15
mrtksn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's not a clandestine operation but just a challenge to the US demands, therefore it's public? US: Don't trade with Iran because politics UK, DE, FR, CN, RU: Sorry, We like the deal we made and we would like to trade with Iran. US: If any company trades with Iran, won't be able to trade with the USA. Make your choise. UK, DE, FR, CN, RU: Okay then, we will create an infrastructure where the USA won't be able…

US: Nice. Then we will just roll the dice once a week and point our finger to random big company of yours.

RoW: Good luck defending arbitrary behaviour in front of a court

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#30

Post by d__k »

gdfasfklshg4 wrote: post #16
sbierwagen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia invades another country. You are the President of the US. Your options are: 1.) Do nothing. Poland, and the parts of Germany that used to be East Germany, might not like the long term consequences of this plan. 2.) Start a nuclear war, killing hundreds of millions of people. A few disadvantages to this plan as well. 3.) Economic sanctions. You can certainly say this will kill people by way of depressing GDP gr…

The USA invades at least as many countries as Russia.

Purely statistically you cannot even compare them:

    |US invasions| >> |Russia invasions|
But maybe it is because of the difference in GDP:

    |US invasions| / GDP ~= |Russia invasions| / GDP
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