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Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

bloomberg.com

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Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#81

Post by trhway »

badminton1 wrote: post #28
sschueller wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the US get to unilaterally decide who gets sanctioned and who doesn't? Europe has a lot more to loose on an unstable Iran than the US and can't risk deals being undone because the US has a new regime every 4 years.

Imagine a wrestling match. 2 wrestlers fight for some good amount of time. When they're tired enough, a 3rd wrestler gets in and beats both. That was World War II for the most part. After World War II, most of the world was destroyed except for the US. After the war, the US never left. Overseas bases still exist in Germany, Japan and many other places. They had everyone adopt a financial system (Bretton Woods) which…

>The inevitable fate of the US is to collapse in the same way the Soviet Union did in 1989.

While the final phase took several years, USSR collapsed in 1991. 1989 was de-facto collapse of Warsaw Pact (Berlin Wall).

I lived in USSR/Russia back then, and for the last almost 2 decades i've been living in the US. While a bunch of things went downhill during that time here, the US and USSR doesn't even come close. Specifically, in major part the USSR collapse was due to lowest (at least among developed countries) productivity of its economy, from agriculture to high-tech. The country basically ran out of food. Compare that to the US where economic productivity, from agriculture to high-tech is among highest in the world. Granted, the current administration seems to be hell-bent on doing as much damage to the US economy as possible, yet i think the US economy will be in pretty good shape even after those 6 more years that Trump is going to spend in the office (the damage he is going to do in the next 2 years wouldn't be enough for his electorate to trim their enthusiasm).

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#82

Post by NTDF9 »

snaky wrote: post #15
mrtksn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's not a clandestine operation but just a challenge to the US demands, therefore it's public? US: Don't trade with Iran because politics UK, DE, FR, CN, RU: Sorry, We like the deal we made and we would like to trade with Iran. US: If any company trades with Iran, won't be able to trade with the USA. Make your choise. UK, DE, FR, CN, RU: Okay then, we will create an infrastructure where the USA won't be able…

US: Nice. Then we will just roll the dice once a week and point our finger to random big company of yours.

>> US: Nice. Then we will just roll the dice once a week and point our finger to random big company of yours.

This is exactly the kind of bullying attitude that is pushing US allies away from the US. Using the dollar as a weapon causes everyone to desperately seek alternatives.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#83

Post by TangoTrotFox »

IBM wrote: post #66
TangoTrotFox wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we've been a bully so much as the rich kid that indirectly paid people to be their friend. I think Trump is accurate in pointing out that many of our arrangements are detrimental to the US on the first level, but at the same time those arrangements, and the unstated threat of their removal, is what gave the US the power to arbitrarily exert its influence. This became even more true as other nations star…

>It removes single point of failure scenarios. Economies and nations keeping each other more at arm's reach would help ensure the world acts in a more democratic fashion while simultaneously also providing insulation against the failing of any given nation's poor decisions - be those social, political, economic, or military. This is completely ahistorical. You're describing the "balance of power" system that governed…

The reason you call the Cold War the Cold War and not World War 3 is because of what stopped the system of wars you refer to, and what immediately ended the second world war: nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons prevent countries from militarily exerting influence against another nuclear nation. Nuclear weapons are the great equalizer of power. Pakistan was harboring Osama Bin Laden next to a military related facility - a man we destroyed two countries seeking, one under completely false pretenses. Yet when we finally found him, in Pakistan, our response was a silent and rapid in and out followed by mostly token gestures. Iraq and Afghanistan did not have nuclear weapons. Pakistan does.

All our current system of relations has done is turn US into the world's final word on everything. This creates more of an autocratic than a democratic system of world relations. That Saudi Arabia sits on UN human rights council, chairing their advisory committee (which chooses appointed 'independent experts') speaks to how functioning our international institutions are. They are a little more than a proxy for US influence. I do not think any single government should have such a unilateral influence on the happenings of the world.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#84

Post by tremon »

IBM wrote: post #71
tanilama wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US has this clout because it controls a large part of the organizations for international cooperation. With Trump, it is clear that he only wants to exercise such power without considering the consequences of it. With the trust towards US fading, in and out of West, a complimentary mechanism will be created. US will control/influence where its hard power can still reach, but not beyond.

Trump is an aberration and will likely be out of office in 2020, worst case 2024. No one is going to blow up old alliances because of Trump. Every foreign capital is just trying to ride out the storm.

Aberration or not (I think it's not), the rest of the world isn't going to twiddle their thumbs until 2020, worst case 2024.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#86

Post by PunchTornado »

bsaul wrote: post #68
close04 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These measures usually have 2 unpleasant side-effects for the initiator: they trigger some form of retaliation and they push the other party closer to the enemy. In this case it could come back to harm the US tech sector for example, and it would push EU closer to China and Russia.

« pushing closer to the ennemi », yet i don’t think any european citizen will understand why we prefer to start a judiciary war against the US just so that we can help a muslim theocracy broaden its influence in the middle east. It doesn’t serm to me that the public opinion in europe is really heading toward that kind of opinion.

as a European, I don't feel close to US at all at the moment.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#88

Post by lumberjack »

anomaly_ wrote: post #32
antr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RoW: Good luck defending arbitrary behaviour in front of a court

As opposed to the EU’s totally non-arbitrary action against US technology multinationals from a tax and competition perspective?

How ironic that you do not even realise how entitled you are to make such a remark. The EU is regulating its own markets. The US is trying to stop the EU from trading with Iran.

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#89

Post by snaky »

PunchTornado wrote: post #86
bsaul wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

« pushing closer to the ennemi », yet i don’t think any european citizen will understand why we prefer to start a judiciary war against the US just so that we can help a muslim theocracy broaden its influence in the middle east. It doesn’t serm to me that the public opinion in europe is really heading toward that kind of opinion.

as a European, I don't feel close to US at all at the moment.

Do you feel yourself being close to China?

Re: Europe Finally Has an Excuse to Challenge the Dollar

#90

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

david927 wrote: post #85

We're at an interesting crossroads in modern history where US hegemony is slipping away, as viewed in declining US Dollar dominance. I wonder if this will end with a bang or a whimper.

Ended in a bang the last times an empire fell and a new one was rising.
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