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Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

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Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#191
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One nasty change was that clearing all cookies no longer cleared Google cookies with these changes. That is a big, privacy-impacting change.

I think that change was merited because of the "signed into chrome vs google" issue they were trying to solve. Say I clear my cookies on a signed-in, syncing account. With G Cookies also deleted, I may wonder "Why is my picture in the top right but no Google services are using it??". To us, it's clear that chrome sign-in is different from google sign-in, but to others, it may not be.

"To us, it's clear that chrome sign-in is different from google sign-in, but to others, it may not be"

I highly doubt the common person knows what a cookie is, let alone how to clear them.

A simple solution would be to add an extra step when clearing cookies that asks if you would like to stay signed into your Google session and clear or keep those cookies based on your selection.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#192
post #9

I have no doubt this is a direct result of the feedback in the hacker news thread. Googlers read our comments and take them seriously when there is true merit. Keep making noise folks, it matters.

not a chance. they saw a sharp spike in conversions to FF. if they cared about the HN opinion, they’d never have implemented this in the first place.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know exactly what conditions are required to reproduce the bug, but it clearly does not apply to all rMBPs. I'm on a 15-inch 2016 rMBP and have been using Firefox on it successfully since I got it. Before that I spent a couple months on a 2013 rMBP, also no problems. Edit: For people who want to compare notes: High Sierra 10.13.6, Firefox 62.0.2, resolution is set to "Default for display" (which I think does…

It happens when you set your rMBP display to "Scaled" in display preferences, which is what most developers do. (Edit to your edit: Try the "More Space" option in your display preferences! It's amazing.)

Similar to the sibling comment, I can't seem to repro. I switched "More Space", restarted Firefox, loaded up a dozen or so tabs. I even watched a YouTube video for about 10 minutes. The video did cause CPU to jump a bit, but it dropped when I unloaded the tab, and nothing I've done (including the video) has caused any sort of lag like described in your first post or subsequent follow-up.

I'm not sure what to say. I'm sure the issue is real, but it seems like we're missing something in the triage. There has to be something else that makes a difference.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#194

I’ve realized something over the years: Remember how “cool” Google was in 2007!? I vividly remember. I have learned an important fact that Ad business is rotten at the core - meaning it has direct conflicts with users. Therefore, I can never come to trust any Ads businesses: Facebook, Google, Snapchat, etc and recently Adobe and Microsoft. I’m disgusted at the state of advertisement in modern society. It ruined cable…

I generally agree. However without ads, how do you expect poor people to have (free) access to radio, magazines (well, cheaper), antenna tv?

Poverty should be over soon. Twenty to thirty years max.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#195
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for one thing, search is a tightly-coupled problem that revolves around a big and expensive data store. That's quite different from a browser. Blekko did get volunteers to help edit our slashtags, and duckduckgo used to have volunteers help out with their duckduckhacks.

I think the main point is to not try to copy Google. DDG is power users' search engine for now, and that's OK. You may leverage power users help in tags, and other features, that would minimize the overhead in hardware platform. To make an extreme example - imagine how many data about the particular user would you need to have and how many resources would you need to spend on AI models training to give the same resul…

Thanks the the advice! I guess you don't remember the search engine blekko. I was the CTO.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steps to reproduce: 1) Pick a rMBP. Any one. 2) Set display options - "more space" under System Preferences. 3) Run Firefox. Load any website. No extensions; safe mode doesn't matter. 4) 100%+ CPU, fans kick up and run high, system gets hot and slows to a crawl. Chrome and Safari run totally fine under the same conditions. It's documented pretty thoroughly in the first Bugzilla link I posted; the second one is an off…

1) I'm running a MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015) 2) My display options are set to "more space" 3) I loaded this hackernews thread. 4) Firefox and it's child processes are using If I aggressively scroll this page I can push the cpu usage up. We have a variety of fixes in the pipeline that will help with this ( https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1429522 , https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1…

First off, thank you for all of your hardwork. I'm grateful for the existence of Mozilla.

However, I would like to ask... 4.7% translates to how many millions of people?

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#197
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I have to do is load gmail and it'll hit over 100% CPU in top. Usually between 125% and 175%. http://bit.ly/2QaGqzJ

That profile shows all of the time being spent in script execution. Are you sure that setting a different resolution has a dramatic effect on the amount of CPU being used?

Nope. I'm not the Retina Mac person. I'm gonna guess a lot of sites make the system busy with scripts, they all post 100+% CPU loads, fans go on, system gets warm - just to load them. Every once in a while the go nuts well after loading and I'll see a Web Content process over 100% and just stay there but I don't know which tab is causing the problem, so I usually end up killing the whole browser.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try being a cell phone OEM who wants to use Android but without Google integration. Impossible. Tell that to Vivo, Oppo, Honor, Huawei, Xiaomi, Meizu, OnePlus, Lenovo, Qiku, Smartisan, Amazon, etc.

Yet most of them have to install play store. There is no going away from Google completely unless you're Amazon on large budget and you make a big branch off Android source.

Not in China.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#199

I’ve realized something over the years: Remember how “cool” Google was in 2007!? I vividly remember. I have learned an important fact that Ad business is rotten at the core - meaning it has direct conflicts with users. Therefore, I can never come to trust any Ads businesses: Facebook, Google, Snapchat, etc and recently Adobe and Microsoft. I’m disgusted at the state of advertisement in modern society. It ruined cable…

I generally agree. However without ads, how do you expect poor people to have (free) access to radio, magazines (well, cheaper), antenna tv?

I have two problems here:

First, from what I can find, the average click-through rate online for ads is something like 2%. I suspect it's even worse for smaller blogs and independent sources that don't advertise using Google.

Let's assume you're getting a dollar every time someone clicks on an ad. I think that's high, but whatever. If we were to get everyone to start paying for content, that would translate to it costing around 2 cents for you to look at a page. If you're reading 30 articles from your favorite site every month, that's 60 cents a month. So people talk about how expensive content would be, but from what I can see it probably wouldn't take a huge amount of money to give sites the same amount of support that they're getting right now.

Secondly, I think it's at least a little bit problematic to say that ads make content free. The only reason why any company would ever pay to put an ad on someone's content is if they expect to make that money back, either by encouraging consumers to buy a different product than they normally would have, or by encouraging them to buy more of a given product than they otherwise would have. Statistically speaking, you are paying for content that is ad supported. If you weren't, nobody would put ads on that content.

And I realize that sounds a little bit like splitting hairs, but I get tired of this idea that ads don't have a consumer cost. If you completely get rid of ads through ad blockers, and by not listening to radio or watching live TV, and by not using any service that doesn't give you a purchase option... it will not take long until you become re-accustomed to "normal" levels of advertising. And once you are accustomed to that, you will immediately notice on venturing back into the ad-filled world just how much time and attention and mindspace that ads demand from you.

Everyone believes that they're atypical, and that ads don't encourage them to spend more, or to buy branded products instead of generic ones, or to treat practical products like status symbols. Most people are wrong about their own abilities though. Most people are affected by advertising. That doesn't mean that advertising is evil, there are lots of good use-cases for advertising -- but it does mean that ads aren't free.

It would be very hard to gather data on this, but I suspect that if you tracked the average spending habits of people who were inundated with ads, their monthly spending would increase more than the cost of buying a few magazine subscriptions. I suspect that's even true of most people on Hackernews. If anyone has data, they're welcome to prove me wrong though.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#200
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know why but I get an intense feeling of disgust at “people at higher position” making stupid decisions like this one. My cynicism kicks in and I feel like they know exactly what they’re doing, but the bottom line is more important than anything including causing a PR storm on HN and tech blogs. Strip down emperor’s clothes and truly reveal the nature of big corporations and their greed to ruin everything for…

In my experience at Google, "people at higher positions" do not really make these kinds of decisions. Someone at the leafmost position in the organization comes up with some research and recommendations and if nobody stops them, they go ahead and do it. It's actually really disorganized.

C'mon, that's a bit of a cartoon characterization. Privacy related stuff must go through legal first when a change is more than just testing a shade of blue. It's not the Wild West in there.
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