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Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

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Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#681

Post by close04 »

llukas wrote: post #668
darkcha0s wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really comparing a software developer completing tickets based on requirements to Nazis being told to kill? The fact that you need to draw that comparison tells me you are going overboard.

Killing people on mass scale needs logistics. Software developer completing tickets fits in perfectly. Example: Somebody did optimize train timetable so deaths camps have uninterrupted flow of victims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann

That may be but the comparison is obviously a shock and awe type exaggeration. By virtue of Nazis being people that also did normal things you could bring it up in any discussion. But would you? Would you tell someone encouraging "the troops" that they're no different from Nazi supporters? It's the exaggeration that's the problem here. The same kind of exaggeration you hear when certain politicians scream "you are protecting terrorists and pedophiles!" to argue against encryption.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#682

Post by perfunctory »

snarfy wrote: post #195
orcdork wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That feels like whitewashing part of the blame that applies to engineers and product developers. We don't get to say "oh it's those pesky money people, how dare they", while drawing a salary from the same pockets.

They disagree with the direction the company is going so they ... quit? They apply at some other company comparable to Google, uproot their family, move across country, and get a job somewhere else? I don't blame the engineers one bit. I certainly don't expect the poor engineer that had to implement the cookie changes to refuse and quit his job over it.

> I certainly don't expect the poor engineer that had to implement the cookie changes to refuse and quit his job over it.

I frankly can't disagree more with this statement. That's how you get VW's defeat devices etc. Engineering ethics matter. And engineers are not "poor". Maybe not everyone realises it but we, engineers, have substantial powers. We need to exercise them.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#683

Post by MrLeap »

perfunctory wrote: post #679
MrLeap wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idealism reminds me of a post I saw here a long time ago about a software developer union. One of their stated goals was "to advocate for people whose job was displaced by automation". Both read to me immediately like high octane, weapons grade, 200 proof naiveté. "Everyone at UPS, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact bicycle couriers?" "Everyone at Amazon,…

> The organization you're talking about is diametrically configured to oppose the thing you're saying they should be mindful of True. That's precisely why engineering ethics is our last hope.

If our last hope depends on any kind of unity of intent among members of our profession then we're doomed.

It's at this point I am tempted to unpack what precipice we're about to go over when our last hope disappoints. Instead i'll stop on an optimistic note: everything is terrible and nothing matters, but humans will keep doing human stuff for as long as we can. By some measures things will continuously improve and by some others we'll regress and retry old tyrannies under new epochs. The ebb and flow can't be arrested by unity while we all hate each other like we do.

Fortunately, we'll only keep on hating each other until we get something else we hate even more. Make no mistake, some day we'll all come together to hate something else again. The unity of action that'll afford will allow us to do some pretty remarkable things. Hopefully the thing we all hate together actually deserves it this time. It doesn't always work that way ;(

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#684

Post by mdaniel »

ipython wrote: post #377
nojvek wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t call Microsoft as a company returning control to Engineers and product. I bought a surface pad for my dad. Setting up was a pain, my dad had constant issues where he’d do something and didn’t know how to get out of it. UX was inconsistent. Bing ads everywhere. Yuck! It still very much felt like features were created for someone to get a promo. Google at the moment feels like a ruthless data driven company.…

> Google at the moment feels like a ruthless data driven company. “Our charts show that with this change people use more google services. It invades user’s privacy and pisses off a bunch of HN users but who cares? This will make us a trillion dollar company, and it is working!” This. A million times. Be prepared for the next step: http://decisionproblem.com/paperclips/index2.html

Holy cow, what have you done to me?! And I thought Civ5 was "one more click" syndrome...

The page is pretty sparse; do you know if there are any winning conditions, or it just goes on until `Number` in JS oveflows?

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#685

Post by SilasX »

MrLeap wrote: post #677
bad_user wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody at Google, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Given Google's size and power it's irresponsible for them to not do so. And given that there are really smart people working for Google, including a whole department working on analyzing the threats and preserving user privacy, I won't believe for a second that nobody thou…

This idealism reminds me of a post I saw here a long time ago about a software developer union. One of their stated goals was "to advocate for people whose job was displaced by automation". Both read to me immediately like high octane, weapons grade, 200 proof naiveté. "Everyone at UPS, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact bicycle couriers?" "Everyone at Amazon,…

I can see how the programmer example is analogous to the others and shows naïveté.

I don't see how any of those is analogous the parent's suggestion. Privacy is not a business rival to Google (as Amazon to small shops or UPS to bike couriers).

True, the attribute privacy hurts one of Google's profit channels; but then, it also makes the product less attractive [1] to the users it needs and exposes it to legal liability, or may leak information that hurts users and hurts profitability in other ways. Even if Google benefits from loss of privacy in some respects, it is hurt in other ways by not consistently, predictably enforcing privacy boundaries.

Neither is true for Amazon vs mom-and-pop or UPS vs independent bike couriers.

Lumping them together is unfair and only communicates "there exists a superficial similarity to an argument that's stupid".

[1] I get it, "if you're not paying, you're not the customer..." My point should be clear though.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#687

Post by SilasX »

orcdork wrote: post #139
drawkbox wrote: post #63

Another confirmation that engineers and product developers are no longer in control at Google. Engineering and product first is how Google won the game initially, very easy to forget that when the money rolls in massively and the power structures move away from those driving forces. Microsoft already went through this engineering/product growth to bizdev/marketing control to stagnation and is already in the return to…

That feels like whitewashing part of the blame that applies to engineers and product developers. We don't get to say "oh it's those pesky money people, how dare they", while drawing a salary from the same pockets.

Yeah, they do. That's exactly how it works with real (certified, legally-enforced labeling of) engineering. That is, civil engineers push back against (excessive) safety-cutting to save money while drawing a salary from the same companies that want to implement such design changes. They only differ in how effectively they have organized to prevent being overruled.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#688

Post by cptskippy »

kbenson wrote: post #575
ehosca wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1-B is modern day slavery.

> H1-B is modern day slavery. Eh, there's a power imbalance, but let's not go overboard. They are offered a good job with good pay in another country. That means they have less power in negotiations, and may be deported, but they don't lose the money they earned, and it's not like they are being exiled to some foreign place, they are literally sent home . Nobody's freedom is being taken away, and nobody's rights are…

It's more like indentured servitude.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#689

Post by kaputsmack »

bad_user wrote: post #590
Pxtl wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume this is the engineering at work. "Okay, users are confused by how they're logged into Google but not Chrome, or Chrome but not Google - let's make them one and the same". "Okay, but once you're logged into Chrome now, every post we check to see if we have the Google cookies to keep that sync... so that means when you clear the cookies the Google ones will automagically reappear" "Ugh, let's just notify the u…

Everybody at Google, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact user privacy for those that care? Given Google's size and power it's irresponsible for them to not do so. And given that there are really smart people working for Google, including a whole department working on analyzing the threats and preserving user privacy, I won't believe for a second that nobody thou…

Like Google gives a shit about privacy!

They are in the spying game. Stop spreading this BS like Google cares about anyone's privacy, they make billions of U$ from SPYING.

Re: Chrome 69 will keep Google Cookies when you tell it to delete all cookies

#690

Post by IBM »

perfunctory wrote: post #679
MrLeap wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idealism reminds me of a post I saw here a long time ago about a software developer union. One of their stated goals was "to advocate for people whose job was displaced by automation". Both read to me immediately like high octane, weapons grade, 200 proof naiveté. "Everyone at UPS, for anything they do, should ask a simple question on any proposal ... how does this impact bicycle couriers?" "Everyone at Amazon,…

> The organization you're talking about is diametrically configured to oppose the thing you're saying they should be mindful of True. That's precisely why engineering ethics is our last hope.

It absolutely isn't.

Industries are regulated because they don't naturally do what society wants. Regulation changes their incentives and behavior to make that happen.

A leopard can't change its spots and an ad-tech company is never going to design their products with preserving privacy first, because they can't [1]. It's like a body rejecting an organ transplant.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_by_design

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