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Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

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Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#141
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't stopped Hetzner from offering 1080s in their servers.

The Nvidia driver licenses that prohibit US companies from using the HW are probably void in Germany/EU. Happens a lot.

Could you reference a law which prohibits doing this?

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#142

NVIDIA is attempting to separate enterprise/datacenter and consumer chips to justify the cost disparity. Specifically, they're introducing memory, precision etc. limits which have major performance implications to GeForce and there's also the EULA which was been mentioned here. That said, everything AWS comes at a premium as they're making the case that on-demand scale outweighs the pain of management/CapEx. This pre…

What are those performance limitations, really?

Memory? Because if you can spread your model across multiple GPUs, and you've implemented Krizhevsky's One Weird Trick to switch between reducing the smallest of either parameters or deltas, you're golden.

I thought tensor cores and NVLINK would end up Tesla differentiators, and really great ones at that, but now they're both in the Turing consumer GPUs so I am really scratching my head here.

That said, the EULA is just stupid. I cannot use CUDA 9.2 or later at work because of it. No one is going to audit our computers for any reason ever, period, full stop.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#143
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The restriction is on the drivers.

I.e. russian law voids any prohibition on reverse engineering of software.

Interesting question is whether the company can sue you for this in the US jurisdiction.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#144
post #120

> There’s one 1080 Ti GPU to start (you can just as easily use the new 2080 Ti for Machine Learning at $500 more — just be careful to get one with a blower fan design) I don't believe there are any blower-style 20-series cards. The reference cards use a dual-fan design.

The ASUS TURBO models are blower style, no idea how hot they'll run though.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#145
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course building is cheaper than AWS... Why "of course"? Last time I checked baking my own cookies is more expensive than just buying a bag at Walmart.

> Last time I checked baking my own cookies is more expensive than just buying a bag at Walmart. Yes, but most likely they aren't of comparable quality

Indeed, off-topic, but I find it fascinating that I can buy a year of Kosher, Vegan, Gluten Free Survival Food on Amazon from ~$1469.

https://www.amazon.com/NorthWest-Fork-Gluten-Free-Emergency-...

That drops to $1149 if I don't require Vegan, non-GMO, Kosher:

https://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Survival-Food-Emergency-Prepa...

SNAP benefits at anywhere from $134 to $192 a month are both more than sufficient for this. So why are ~42 million people starving in America? Answer (IMO): Cloud providers reduce the friction of GPU adoption the same way grocery and convenience stores reduce the friction of food acquisition, both in exchange for profiting off of it.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#146
This analysis assumes 100% utilization: keeping the machine busy 24/7/265. It also ignores AWS price drops and the value of being able to switch to new AWS GPU instance types as they become available.

TL;DR: Proposed machine costs $3k plus ~$100-200?/month for electricity, comparable AWS is currently $3/hr.

My conclusion: If you're going to do more than 1-2,000hrs of GPU computing in the next few years, start thinking about building a machine.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked at Google, I really missed the dual monitor setup I had had at my previous job. I asked my manager how to get a 2nd monitor. Apparently, since I had the larger monitor, I was not allowed to get a 2nd one without all kinds of hassle. I asked if I was allowed to just buy one from Amazon and plug it in, and I was told no. I finally just grabbed an older one that had been sitting in the hallway of the cube-…

Wow, no dual/triple monitor setup is just uncivilized.

There was a choice between a "big" single monitor, or a "small" dual monitor setup. I had just not realized how much I used the framing of the 2 monitors to stay organized, and I chose the "big" single monitor setup. That turned out to be a mistake. The point is that it was easier to "dumpster dive" for a second small monitor than it was to get one in a legit way...

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#148
post #16
post #6

Of course building is cheaper than AWS... It also means you need to build the computer, maintain it, upgrade it, store it somewhere, connect it to the internet, and so on. And you can't just scale it if you need to. I mean, the cloud's here for a reason...

> Of course building is cheaper than AWS... Why "of course"? Last time I checked baking my own cookies is more expensive than just buying a bag at Walmart.

https://chiefmomofficer.org/2016/11/18/cost-of-cookies-is-it...

The answer is not clear cut!

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#149
So this is definitely an interesting article with some good ideas. But the main thrust isn't particularly interesting. It's always going to be true that building and operating your own is cheaper than using "the cloud"... so long as you are making use of it much of the time; and if you have the resources and facilities to build, operate, troubleshoot, and replace the hardware; and if you are sure about your long-term needs. But the decision isn't always that straightforward for most potential users.

Also, look into using S3 for long-term storage, instead of leaving your stuff cold in EBS volumes. It's quite a bit cheaper.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#150

NVIDIA is attempting to separate enterprise/datacenter and consumer chips to justify the cost disparity. Specifically, they're introducing memory, precision etc. limits which have major performance implications to GeForce and there's also the EULA which was been mentioned here. That said, everything AWS comes at a premium as they're making the case that on-demand scale outweighs the pain of management/CapEx. This pre…

Paperspace is great for the price(especially for storage) and easy for deployment. However, the customer support is horrible. Turnaround time is around a week, and sometimes they seem to have billing issues. One time I got charged around $100 for trying out a GPU machine for 2 hours(which is the number of hours showed up on the invoice), and it took them three weeks to eventually issue a refund. That made me decide to switch. Hope you guys can hire more people for customer support or have better solution for issues like this.
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