Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS • Hacker News Board

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#21

Post by tpetry » Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 9:19 AM UTC

pizzapill wrote: post #19

bnastic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't stopped Hetzner from offering 1080s in their servers.

The Nvidia driver licenses that prohibit US companies from using the HW are probably void in Germany/EU. Happens a lot.

Yes. Companies are not allowed to restrict the (legal) usage of something i bought. The only thing they can do is refusing support if i used their product in any means not covered by the license terms, but even this is really hard for them in reality.

It‘s the same with no-resell license terms. Within the EU companies cant forbid me reselling something i bought.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#22

Post by adrianN » Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 9:20 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #16

d--b wrote: post #6

Of course building is cheaper than AWS... It also means you need to build the computer, maintain it, upgrade it, store it somewhere, connect it to the internet, and so on. And you can't just scale it if you need to. I mean, the cloud's here for a reason...

> Of course building is cheaper than AWS... Why "of course"? Last time I checked baking my own cookies is more expensive than just buying a bag at Walmart.

Really? Do you count the time needed to make them? Butter, sugar, and flour aren't expensive.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#23

Post by mullen » Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 9:21 AM UTC

Try spot instances, you'll save a ton of money.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#24

Post by maltalex » Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 9:30 AM UTC

I don't see what's surprising here. This is the ski rental problem [0].

Would it surprise anyone to learn that renting a car is more expensive in the long run compared to buying one? This is the same thing, only the time scales are different.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_rental_problem

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#25

Post by ofrzeta » Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 9:30 AM UTC

tpetry wrote: post #21

pizzapill wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nvidia driver licenses that prohibit US companies from using the HW are probably void in Germany/EU. Happens a lot.

Yes. Companies are not allowed to restrict the (legal) usage of something i bought. The only thing they can do is refusing support if i used their product in any means not covered by the license terms, but even this is really hard for them in reality. It‘s the same with no-resell license terms. Within the EU companies cant forbid me reselling something i bought.

The restriction is on the drivers.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#26

Post by woolvalley » Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 9:34 AM UTC

badestrand wrote: post #20

pgeorgi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need 10k cookies every day for multiple years, you're better off building your own bakery. If you need multiple years of continuous DL work, you're better off building your own DL system. If you need 5 cookies today (and maybe the next batch next week), go to Walmart. Same for an one-off DL job.

According to the article you can break even after only two weeks which is far from "10k cookies every day for multiple years".

Tech employees and maintenance is more expensive on the margin than cookie bakers

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#27

Post by pizzapill » Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 9:36 AM UTC

ofrzeta wrote: post #25

tpetry wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Companies are not allowed to restrict the (legal) usage of something i bought. The only thing they can do is refusing support if i used their product in any means not covered by the license terms, but even this is really hard for them in reality. It‘s the same with no-resell license terms. Within the EU companies cant forbid me reselling something i bought.

The restriction is on the drivers.

We're going full circle here. The EULAs, licenses etc. of US companies that try to restrict how you can use the Hardware/Software you bought are void in Germany (probably most of EU too) and can be ignored. In many cases they void other (legal) parts of those licenses too since the license is partly illegal.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#28

Post by raverbashing » Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 9:37 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #16

d--b wrote: post #6

Of course building is cheaper than AWS... It also means you need to build the computer, maintain it, upgrade it, store it somewhere, connect it to the internet, and so on. And you can't just scale it if you need to. I mean, the cloud's here for a reason...

> Of course building is cheaper than AWS... Why "of course"? Last time I checked baking my own cookies is more expensive than just buying a bag at Walmart.

> Last time I checked baking my own cookies is more expensive than just buying a bag at Walmart.

Yes, but most likely they aren't of comparable quality

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#29

Post by dagw » Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 9:40 AM UTC

You're forgetting the cost of fighting IT in a bureaucratic corporation to get them to let you buy/run non-standard hardware

Much easier to spend huge amounts of money of Azure/AWS and politely tell them it's their own fucking fault when they complain about the costs. (what me? no I'm not bitter, why do you ask?)

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#30

Post by soneil » Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 9:42 AM UTC

badestrand wrote: post #20

pgeorgi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need 10k cookies every day for multiple years, you're better off building your own bakery. If you need multiple years of continuous DL work, you're better off building your own DL system. If you need 5 cookies today (and maybe the next batch next week), go to Walmart. Same for an one-off DL job.

According to the article you can break even after only two weeks which is far from "10k cookies every day for multiple years".

I think the analogy holds. The numbers in the article assume constant usage (there is a nod to the cost of static storage, but all the math is done on $3/hr gpu usage, not $0.1/mo/GB storage).

So if your usage is 4 hours per week, 50 weeks a year, you hit $600/year of gpu. If your usage is 24 hours a day, you hit $27k.

So it's not a clear-cut "buying metal is cheaper" - you have to decide how your usage amortizes. As pgeorgi says, if your demand is a pack of cookies a week, buying a bakery isn't the most cost-efficient way to satisfy that demand.