Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: A new protocol for packet radio including ECDSA and compression

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 94 posts

Re: Show HN: A new protocol for packet radio including ECDSA and compression

#21

Post by braxxox »

VMG wrote: post #11
rtkwe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amateur public radio bands are supposed to be open and useful to everyone so the broadcasts in those spectra are supposed to be readable by everyone as part of the accessible part. On top of that encrypted transmissions would be basically noise pumped into the system making the open uses more difficult and harder to police.

what about steganography?

Section 97.113 of FCC rules describes prohibited amateur radio transmissions: https://www.w5yi.org/page.php?id=121

While it doesn't call out encryption by name it more broadly prohibits "messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning." I take that to include both encryption and obfuscation methods like steganography.

Re: Show HN: A new protocol for packet radio including ECDSA and compression

#22

Post by jasonjayr »

Cyph0n wrote: post #2

Cool project! I have always been interested in the amateur radio scene. So encrypting amateur radio comms is illegal in the US? Is there a particular reason for this?

This project seems to just implement signatures + verifiability to clear text messages, which I think(I am not a HAM), is allowed under the rules.

Re: Show HN: A new protocol for packet radio including ECDSA and compression

#23

Post by M0 »

Cyph0n wrote: post #2

Cool project! I have always been interested in the amateur radio scene. So encrypting amateur radio comms is illegal in the US? Is there a particular reason for this?

This one is not encrypted. Its plaintext or compressed (gzip I think). Crypto is only for digital signatures.

Re: Show HN: A new protocol for packet radio including ECDSA and compression

#24

Post by wedowhatwedo »

emptybits wrote: post #7
Cyph0n wrote: post #2

Cool project! I have always been interested in the amateur radio scene. So encrypting amateur radio comms is illegal in the US? Is there a particular reason for this?

It's also illegal in Canada. With amateur radio "dying" as an interesting hobby (my opinion, but widely held) it is often speculated that if encryption was permitted in amateur radio communications, there would be quite a resurgence in interest. I predict a new generation would start to pick up the hobby and find untold uses (and abuses) for it.

Yes, if encryption was permitted, there would be a ton of interest...by commercial companies. Non-licensed users would out number licensed ones by huge amounts. It would put an end to amateur radio.

Re: Show HN: A new protocol for packet radio including ECDSA and compression

#25

Post by braxxox »

mycall wrote: post #6

I would love to another version of this using gnuradio and lime sdr mini (or similar)

That's a great idea! The protocol can be implemented entirely separate from this first TypeScript client application. If anyone out there has gnuradio experience, I'd love to chat with them / offer support. I'd imagine the more folks use it the more we'd learn what modifications to v1 of the protocol would be useful.

Re: Show HN: A new protocol for packet radio including ECDSA and compression

#26

Post by lb1lf »

trothamel wrote: post #19
brians wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more hams in the US, and more active hams, than ever before. That's a funny sort of dying! Joe Taylor's work on below-the-noise signal extraction has revitalized shortwave: https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx.html , particularly at the nadir of the sunspot cycle. That's a funny sort of dying! Amateur satellites are accessible for $100 in parts: https://www.n2yo.com/satellites/?c=18 ; with the sa…

Is there a good description of what those $100 in parts for satellite work are? Or better yet, something purchasable that's likely to work? I've been wanting to get into it, but I've never found a really accessible guide to getting started in satellite communication.

I haven't looked into satellite work in fifteen years or so, but back then it was definitely possible to work the LEO FM repeater satellites using a handheld and a small yagi - typically two elements 144MHz, five on 432MHz if memory serves.

With handhelds being dirt cheap and a yagi cut from a measuring tape being an option, I don't think getting on satellite for $100 sounds undoable.

Re: Show HN: A new protocol for packet radio including ECDSA and compression

#27

Post by kam »

mycall wrote: post #6

I would love to another version of this using gnuradio and lime sdr mini (or similar)

This looks like it implements the packet processing only, and suggests using Direwolf as a software AX.25 modem. Direwolf can decode audio piped from rtl_fm or gqrx, so using a SDR is likely already possible for receive; not sure about transmit.

Re: Show HN: A new protocol for packet radio including ECDSA and compression

#28

Post by ysleepy »

Maybe messages should include a coarse timestamp to prevent replay of old messages by some adversary.

Someone could resend a month old "yes" with your valid signature to a question someone asks now.

Also it might be beneficial to include sequence numbers or message IDs and for example echo the last 4 ids in following messages so recipients can detect holes. - The chat could insert some placeholder to notify recipients of missing previous messages.

Re: Show HN: A new protocol for packet radio including ECDSA and compression

#29

Post by blattimwind »

Cyph0n wrote: post #2

Cool project! I have always been interested in the amateur radio scene. So encrypting amateur radio comms is illegal in the US? Is there a particular reason for this?

> So encrypting amateur radio comms is illegal in the US? Is there a particular reason for this?

Encrypting amateur radio is illegal practically world-wide — every ITU member state bans it.

Re: Show HN: A new protocol for packet radio including ECDSA and compression

#30

Post by vvanders »

Does this do any sort of FEC? One of the things that makes stuff like this tricky(and APRS in general) is that one flipped bit throws off the whole decode.

From what I've seen out there would be a 40% improvement[1] in just base APRS if there was some form of basic FEC built into the protocol. Sadly most of "state of the art" is stuck back in the 80s.

[1] http://eludium.stensat.org/mcguire/projects/FX-25/FX-25_perf...

Post reply on HN