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Brain Drain Within the EU?

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Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#211

Post by growlist »

angarg12 wrote: post #120
arximboldi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Spaniard living in Germany... part of that very same problem. Anyways, "taxes and bureaucracy" is not the problem of the of the european south. In fact, taxes and bureaucracy are both way higher in Germany. The problems are more complex and historical. The EU economic crisis have been abused by right-wingers to argue that we have a too heavy social system. In fact, the demolition of the social system in the so…

I'm from Spain and I have lived in Germany and now UK. What surprises me from these numbers is that the share of Spaniards abroad isn't higher. My reason to leave was my career. In Spain most things work via connections and meritocracy hardly exists. I went from a salary below the median and a dead end job to a top paying job with unlimited growth potential. I love Spain as a holiday destination, but I will never go…

UK is meritocratic to an extent, but just look at the people at the top: usually educated at elite institutions, and often with heritage that can be traced back to the Norman invasion in 1066!

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#212

Post by lispm »

jayalpha wrote: post #200
lispm wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mann beisst Hund. Hund beisst Mann. Perfect German. Different meaning. I doubt that Polish people or Russian people learn German much easier. Somehow in English speaking countries there is this fear to learn a very similar language. There are numbers how long it takes for an English speaker to learn a different language... German belongs to the easiest group. https://blog.thelinguist.com/how-long-should-it-take-to-le…

"Perfect German. Different meaning." Debatable if a German teacher would accept this sentence in an Essay, except as a stylistic element. Please try to understand the concept of word order and Declension. Try to translate the latin phrase morituri te salutant to English and German. If you can, you have understood declension. "There are numbers how long it takes for an English speaker to learn a different language...…

> Debatable if a German teacher would accept this sentence in an Essay, except as a stylistic element

That's not relevant to determine whether this is valid German. An easy Google finds zillions of these:

https://www.mdr.de/sachsen-anhalt/magdeburg/magdeburg/hund-b...

https://bnn.de/lokales/achern/rheinau-gebissen

> What is really totally irrelevant for the discussion. Please try again to understand the topic.

Please read your own post to understand the topic:

>> I see that native English speakers can learn German rather easily

> doubt that

I gave you a reference to how difficult learning German for English speakers is seen: German is in the 'easy' group.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#213

Post by ben_w »

repolfx wrote: post #149
ben_w wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

British industry growth has become unstable rather than higher since the pound collapsed. British exports have mainly gone up because gold (which doesn’t come from the UK, it just happened to be stored there) is being moved out of the country in economically significant quantities. https://www.ft.com/content/0407854e-f9d0-11e6-9516-2d969e0d3... This isn’t to say the Euro is brilliant or not, I don’t have the knowledg…

The pound hasn't collapsed, that's why. Look at a graph of GBPUSD. The pound spent all of 2017 increasing in value, and you'll see that by the start of 2018 the pound had erased the entire drop that followed the EU referendum - it was back to the value it was at the start of 2016. The fluctuations since then have been within the same sort of range as is normal for such a currency: the fall since April is of about the…

> Look at a graph of GBPUSD. The pound spent all of 2017 increasing in value, and you'll see that by the start of 2018 the pound had erased the entire drop that followed the EU referendum - it was back to the value it was at the start of 2016.

GBP/USD:

* 7 Jan 2016: 1.46

* 20 Oct 2016: 1.22

* 15 Dec 2016: 1.34

Jan-April 2017 were at the level of early 2016, but still lower than just before the referendum itself.

Then it went back down again. It’s currently 1.31

That graph looks like two patches of normal currency variations separated by a vertical line on 24 June 2016. If that’s not a collapse, what is?

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#214

Post by growlist »

tigershark wrote: post #192
repolfx wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lost thousands of pounds already? How did you manage that? The UK economy has grown strongly since the vote. If you look at the GDP data you'll see there's hardly any difference in the last few years: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth Note that Q1 GDP growth is usually revised upwards some time after publication, so I'd expect Q1 2018 to come into alignment with the other years after enough t…

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth-annua... Don't you notice anything between before June 2016 and after? Before was growing at 2.2%, now it is growing at just 1.2%. To me 1.2% seems pretty close to half of 2.2%. I lost thousand of pounds because I had to spend money abroad and thanks to the collapsing value of the pound I had to spend much more. Where you live has a huge importance because you cl…

> just 100k people

So more people than not still see the UK as better than elsewhere. Call me when migration turns negative.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#215

Post by growlist »

tigershark wrote: post #151
rleigh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely a major factor for problems in both Italy and Spain is the crippling effect of the Euro and EU regulation. If the Euro were scrapped, it could make the economies much more competitive. Just look at how the drop in the pound over the last two years boosted British industry and exports. That's not an option for countries shackled to the Euro.

British economy went from a growth of ~3% before the Brexit to half of that after the Brexit. Italy economy with the lira in the ‘90s was completely stagnant. Please avoid spreading misinformation passing your conjectures for facts.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#216

Post by growlist »

user5994461 wrote: post #202
binbag wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your point. The UK contains the largest proportion of STEM workers in Europe, equalled only by Germany, and the UK contains some of the best unis in the world.

The first point is self explanatory. There is no shortage of STEM graduates and a limited amount of jobs. Why would would you want to train many more? Every big developed country has some of the best universities in the world. The UK is not any better than what can be found in Germany, France, Switzerland, Poland or Romania. I guess what I am trying to get at is that there is no struggling as you said. It's the oppos…

> The UK is not any better than what can be found in Germany, France, Switzerland, Poland or Romania.

Proof? US dominates global rankings, with UK pretty much second.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#217

Post by stzup7 »

growlist wrote: post #208
holografix wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t mean to offend you but as a foreigner living in Brussels the taxes and overall cost of living, for the services you receive, are shockingly terrible. The inefficieny of the Belgium bureaucracy is like nothing I have ever seen before and if Italy is any worse I can’t blame a single soul for abandoning ship. I visited Milan a month ago and was very happily surprised at how clean and orderly the city seemed. A w…

Counterpoint, I received a tax rebate in the post a couple of years after leaving Belgium to return to the UK. Somehow I doubt the UK's tax office would be so diligent in seeking out former taxpayers abroad to return money to them!

They are. After a 6 months internship in the UK and without telling/asking them anything, they returned money to me a year later.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#218

Post by Eug894 »

petre wrote: post #189
Eug894 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to pay 60% taxes to get these. Exactly. Poor Western Europeans are robbed by their corrupted governments, IMHO. In Ukraine programmers pay only 5% tax, when everyone else - around 40%. So, come to us! : )

Isn't it kind of exagerating to call western EU governments corrupt and invite investors into Ukraine, a country that struggles to get out of Russia's grip and had several swift regime changes, a poisoned president and an ongoing war in the last 20 years? Also, tax extemptions for a job sector that isn't threatened in any way are discriminating.

Well, yeah, unfortunately majority of Ukrainians are not smart enough to overcome those problems (mainly with Russia). But even without IQ qualification for voting, I hope, they will be able to rule over the state right. I don't participate in voting as you can guess from my profile...

Regarding the taxes. They are not that discriminating! Because in absolute values other workers may pay to the state even less than programmers. A good programmer may earn up to $3000 every month, so $3000·5% = $150 is what he gives to the state in taxes. An ordinary worker earns (official stat) $350 a month, so he gives only $350·40% = $140. I am not sure about 40% though...

We also have very low prices here too. For instance, potatoes cost only ¢15/kg, so if you are European or American you are welcome to spend your money here : )

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#219

Post by kaybe »

wsc981 wrote: post #170
gaius wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, taxes and bureaucracy are both way higher in Germany. People generally don’t mind paying a premium in time or money if they feel what they get it worth it. Everyone knows this is true, witness people happily stand in line for hours to buy an expensive but desirable item or experience. In Germany and Sweden and a few other countries taxes are high but you can look around you and see that it goes on high quali…

Netherlands would be one of those countries that has high taxation and indeed has good infrastructure and still decent public services (though it's been getting worse). Still I decided I wanted to leave the country for many reasons, but in part because I feel I pay too much for what I receive. Now I live in Thailand with my girlfriend and while infrastructure is much worse and public services are of (much) lower qual…

What happens if you lose your job or fall ill?

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#220

Post by tigershark »

growlist wrote: post #214
tigershark wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth-annua... Don't you notice anything between before June 2016 and after? Before was growing at 2.2%, now it is growing at just 1.2%. To me 1.2% seems pretty close to half of 2.2%. I lost thousand of pounds because I had to spend money abroad and thanks to the collapsing value of the pound I had to spend much more. Where you live has a huge importance because you cl…

> just 100k people So more people than not still see the UK as better than elsewhere. Call me when migration turns negative.

Brexit still didn’t happen and the net migration collapsed.
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