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Brain Drain Within the EU?

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Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#191

Post by barry-cotter »

dmos62 wrote: post #161
barry-cotter wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either don’t apologise or don’t do it.

I apologise, because while I hold it accurate, hence I use it, the labeling is superficial. "He's this, he's that" is not something you enjoy throwing around. You either think there's nothing to apologise for, in which case you're just criticizing my manner of conversation, or you think the labeling is inaccurate or demeaning, in which case you fail to demonstrate how. In either case, brevity and directness of your c…

I think that you think it’s accurate but demeaning. I value the truth more than feelings. If you value feelings more lie. Lie unhesitatingly. Lie with no apologies. Lie with vehemence. Lie and work to destroy the lives of those who love the truth.

If you value truth more work to expose the truth.

But whatever you do don’t apologise. If you’re going to try to destroy people’s life’s work own it. If you’re going to try and bury an opinion because it has bad consequences without regard for whether it’s true or not own it, know it. Those who follow you may believe they’re burying a lie but you should know you’re doing your best to bury something you believe to be true.

But don’t piss on the people whose lives and beliefs you work to erase by apologising. Show them the respect of working to destroy what they believe in openly.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#192

Post by tigershark »

repolfx wrote: post #186
tigershark wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before looking at the numbers you need to understand what the numbers actually mean. The gbp value has indeed collapsed. Whoever is telling the contrary is plainly lying. The gbp eur fx before the Brexit was over 1.40, now it is 1.11. Obviously you look at the gbp usd graph that has nothing to do with the strength of the gbp because the major business partner of the UK is the EU, not the US, and by far. The gbp usd g…

You lost thousands of pounds already? How did you manage that? The UK economy has grown strongly since the vote. If you look at the GDP data you'll see there's hardly any difference in the last few years: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth Note that Q1 GDP growth is usually revised upwards some time after publication, so I'd expect Q1 2018 to come into alignment with the other years after enough t…

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth-annua... Don't you notice anything between before June 2016 and after? Before was growing at 2.2%, now it is growing at just 1.2%. To me 1.2% seems pretty close to half of 2.2%. I lost thousand of pounds because I had to spend money abroad and thanks to the collapsing value of the pound I had to spend much more. Where you live has a huge importance because you clearly have no idea of the current economic scenario in the UK. The evidence is all in the numbers that you try to ignore or to manipulate to justify your agenda. But numbers don't lie and everyone can verify that as I said just before the Brexit the annual gdp growth was 2.2% and now is 1.2/1.3%. The GBP before arrived to 1.43 on the EUR now it is at 1.11. The net migration from the EU is at its lowest in 5 years at just 100K people. These are the raw and pure numbers, not your fantasy that UK economy is the same as before.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#193

Post by jashmatthews »

mkio wrote: post #127
woodpanel wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(fictional, simplified) Example for a Software Engineer based in Germany [1]: Gross income: 100.000 EUR / year [2] ------------------------- TAXES - Income tax (28.600 EUR) - "solidarity premium" (2.300 EUR) - church tax (1.600 € - cumpolsory until you leave the curch) SOCIAL SECURITY (compulsory) - unemployed insurance (1.200 EUR) - pension insurance (7.300 EUR) - health insurance (4.500 EUR) - long term care (800 E…

100k is completely unrealistic for a German software engineer, especially after only a couple of years.

That's roughly what Amazon pays SDE3 in Berlin including stock grants and Google pays similarly in Munich.

Smaller companies in Berlin like SoundCloud, ThinkCell, and Simplaex offer €100k+ for engineers with the experience they need.

Even startup salaries are nudging €75k on AngelList and StackOverflow Jobs.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#194

Post by ivrrimum »

ciguy wrote: post #125
louwrentius wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting, it confirms what I suspected. A negative spiral caused by a fundamentally broken culture that Italy is unable to break away from. It's all about stuffing your pockets and those of your family. Because nobody can be trusted. You don't build for the future. You don't care about that now. It seems that there is a fundamental lack of trust amongst Italians. And if there's no trust, you can't build on ea…

I have no idea. Normally younger people could be a catalyst for change, but they are all leaving. I think the effects of this are going to reverberate in Italy for generations as they fall further and further behind.

This is actually relevant for entire of Easter EU as well. Most of the college grads or even dropouts move to UK, Germany for work.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#195

Post by jbros »

tigershark wrote: post #192
repolfx wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lost thousands of pounds already? How did you manage that? The UK economy has grown strongly since the vote. If you look at the GDP data you'll see there's hardly any difference in the last few years: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth Note that Q1 GDP growth is usually revised upwards some time after publication, so I'd expect Q1 2018 to come into alignment with the other years after enough t…

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth-annua... Don't you notice anything between before June 2016 and after? Before was growing at 2.2%, now it is growing at just 1.2%. To me 1.2% seems pretty close to half of 2.2%. I lost thousand of pounds because I had to spend money abroad and thanks to the collapsing value of the pound I had to spend much more. Where you live has a huge importance because you cl…

GDP is a flawed metric.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#196

Post by icebraining »

gordaco wrote: post #38
tobbe2064 wrote: post #37

I doubt the situation in Spain, Italy and France can compare to the one in Romania, Poland or any of the other eastern members where it's not just the scientist and engineers but also the doctors, nurses teachers etc etc that have much better prospects abroad

Here in Spain is also quite common that nurses emigrate. Mainly to the UK, although that will surely change after Brexit.

Same in Portugal. We have medical graduates migrating out to the north, and we're importing medical staff from non-EU countries (e.g. South America).

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#197

Post by icebraining »

borroka wrote: post #48
hectormalot wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally I'd say that research salaries in Italy seem quite low. I did an internship together with an Italian student in Switzerland. He had a full-time offer in Italy for what was seen as a good salary. Still, he made substantially more as an intern in Switzerland than he would make as a scientist in Italy.

Living in Switzerland is much more expensive than living in Italy (housing especially), so salaries are more or less adjusted accordingly to the cost of living. Then, there are also some top Universities in Switzerland. When I was doing my postdoc ~ 7-10 years ago, I was making 1500 euros after taxes.

Living in Switzerland is much more expensive than living in Italy (housing especially), so salaries are more or less adjusted accordingly to the cost of living.

A relative adjustment might still mean a large absolute difference, though; I don't know about Italy and Switzerland, but even paying double for a house in Luxembourg compared to an equivalent in Portugal, and not earning double, I still had more money at the end of the month.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#198

Post by oneplane »

petre wrote: post #190
oneplane wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that seems to be limited/worse/more when you get 'halfway' through France on the map, it's more abundant when you get in the mediterranean areas. Not sure why, but it's an observation; it's almost as if the concept of work replaced the actual merit of work.

France is quite allright in this regard, it's other EU countries that are more worying: Greece, Italy, Romania, Bulgaria, not necessarily in this order.

Yeah, it's not all of France, and the national policies make sense, but it seems that the closer you get to the Mediterranean sea, the more the quality and work-merit balance tapers off.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#199

Post by tphan »

egeozcan wrote: post #16
village-idiot wrote: post #3

Random thought: the UK has the advantage of speaking English. First, that makes it easier for them to pull in other Europeans, since english is commonly the second language of most other Europeans. Second they can also pull in American and Canadian expats much easier than anyone else in Europe. Germany is more interesting to me. German is not exactly the worlds most common first or second language. So this is more ev…

Contrary to what most people believe, I see that native English speakers can learn German rather easily (with a pretty distinct accent, which I really like :)). Your point stands though, as they usually don't know this before they actually start learning, so they must have other reasons.

Can you tell the difference between American and British English speakers?

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#200

Post by jayalpha »

lispm wrote: post #157
jayalpha wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Contrary to what most people believe, I see that native English speakers can learn German rather easily" I doubt that. While English is part of the West Germanic languages, there are huge grammatical differences. I assume it would be much easier for a Polish or Russian Person to learn German than for an English. The sentence "Man bites Dog" and "Dog bites Man" has a different meaning in English, due to to position o…

Mann beisst Hund. Hund beisst Mann. Perfect German. Different meaning. I doubt that Polish people or Russian people learn German much easier. Somehow in English speaking countries there is this fear to learn a very similar language. There are numbers how long it takes for an English speaker to learn a different language... German belongs to the easiest group. https://blog.thelinguist.com/how-long-should-it-take-to-le…

"Perfect German. Different meaning." Debatable if a German teacher would accept this sentence in an Essay, except as a stylistic element. Please try to understand the concept of word order and Declension. Try to translate the latin phrase morituri te salutant to English and German. If you can, you have understood declension.

"There are numbers how long it takes for an English speaker to learn a different language... German belongs to the easiest group."

What is really totally irrelevant for the discussion. Please try again to understand the topic.

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