Live data from Hacker News

Brain Drain Within the EU?

statista.com

71–80 of 235 posts

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Spaniard living in Germany... part of that very same problem. Anyways, "taxes and bureaucracy" is not the problem of the of the european south. In fact, taxes and bureaucracy are both way higher in Germany. The problems are more complex and historical. The EU economic crisis have been abused by right-wingers to argue that we have a too heavy social system. In fact, the demolition of the social system in the so…

> In fact, the demolition of the social system in the south is precisely preventing it from really leaving the crisis. Isn't it arguable though that the politicians are choosing to cut social welfare instead of choosing to cut cronyism and political favors? In which case it's actually the left-wing which is abusing the economic crisis, using those in poverty as pawns in a bigger game? > I want higher taxes if it come…

Giving everyone the same access is fair. Those in poverty are only much less likely to be qualified in situations where education is commercialized/capitalized. Also, subsidizing is a rather dirty word to use for this case (we're talking about a general pool of money in a tax system, not your money with a serial number on it going to one specific place to be spent), as well as selecting 'the wealthy' as the ones who are to profit, since they most likely pay taxes that easily cover all the expenses an enrolled student would require.

Using taxes in a manner that gives everyone the same benefit is seems like a reasonable thing, especially when compared to the places tax money seems to be spent to much (arms, military, open-loop energy systems, politics) or too little (i.e. too little for roads and bridges...).

The main difference is getting value out of your taxes. Value can be direct or indirect (the impact of education on your family, neighbors, friends etc indirectly impacts you as well, this goes for infrastructure, healthcare etc. as well), but having very little value kind of misses the point of a taxation system in an organised society. Might as well live in a forest by yourself in such cases. (but people tend to migrate to a country with a better system instead)

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#73
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for a US organisation in London, and not finance. The average compensation for engineers is about £100,000 - some above and some below. This is on top of private medical and dental, generous pension contributions and a number of other benefits.

Same for us, finance has slightly above average comp packages especially the bonus but in London it’s possible to get to 100K as an engineer outside of it it begins to drop drastically some tech hubs can have high salaries but Manchester for example tops out at around 80K and that’s also pretty hard to get. Outside of the UK you might be lucky to get €50-60K even when working for US firms on average this includes Ger…

CoL?

Seriously here in Norway getting over 100K € annually is becoming normal. If you are really talented, then you can even make 150k € annually. Freelancers make over 200k € annually. There is a huge shortage for developers these days, much thanks to "digital transformation" trend.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#74
post #18

I'm living in Italy at the moment, and I can watch the brain drain happening in real time. Every single university student I know here is looking to go to the UK or Germany when they graduate, almost without exception. I can't blame them at all, taxes are excessive and bureaucracy is excruciating here. Finding even a temporary job usually requires family connections, so the dumbest people with connections end up as m…

I'm living in Italy at the moment, and I can watch the brain drain happening in real time. Every single university student I know here is looking to go to the UK or Germany when they graduate, almost without exception.

If you allow your gaze to de-focus slightly, you could think of Italy as contributing towards the EU as a whole. If it helps, just down the road from me is a helicopter manufacturer that used to be known as Westland Aircraft (there are railings with WA in them still). It is now known as Leonardo (as in da Vinci). You might also note that before I get to Leonardo I pass a Lidl store and a Macdonalds. On the northern side of town there is an Asda which is effectively Walmart.

I remember, many moons ago (1970s), the UK whining about "suffering" a brain drain to the US. Maybe there was a net migration in that direction or not - who knows? In the UK we have had scandals in the past about the Home Office not knowing how many immigrants have entered the country, so I doubt that anyone can claim to know how many have left either. I also suspect that Italy has a similar lack of decent official data capture.

Anyway, it sounds like you are still a nipper (a young person) and have opportunities. Take advantage of them and don't get too hung up on what you might perceive as a problem that some people might love to have to deal with but can't because they are in real poverty and/or oppression.

Think, say, Syria (for example)

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Spaniard living in Germany... part of that very same problem. Anyways, "taxes and bureaucracy" is not the problem of the of the european south. In fact, taxes and bureaucracy are both way higher in Germany. The problems are more complex and historical. The EU economic crisis have been abused by right-wingers to argue that we have a too heavy social system. In fact, the demolition of the social system in the so…

> In fact, the demolition of the social system in the south is precisely preventing it from really leaving the crisis. Isn't it arguable though that the politicians are choosing to cut social welfare instead of choosing to cut cronyism and political favors? In which case it's actually the left-wing which is abusing the economic crisis, using those in poverty as pawns in a bigger game? > I want higher taxes if it come…

> Isn't it arguable though that the politicians are choosing to cut social welfare instead of choosing to cut cronyism and political favors? In which case it's actually the left-wing which is abusing the economic crisis, using those in poverty as pawns in a bigger game?

I don't understand what you're saying here. Cutting social welfare is not a left wing position. Neither is avoiding to cut cronyism.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#76
post #69
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that both are factors. However, it was fairly easy to work in different European countries before the EU or the EEC existed, it just needed some paperwork filling out, so I'm inclined to think this is a lesser factor. There was migration for work between western European countries such as UK/Germany/France/Italy for well over a century. It has certainly increased in recent decades, but it's not at all new. I…

I’ve just moved from the UK to Germany. This was primarily enabled by Google translate and online courses like Duolingo, and by websites making the necessary tasks known and understandable. The Euro is icing on the cake, not the… I guess the metaphor would imply “the main course”?

It's true that differing currencies is basically negligible as far as friction goes. So long as you can exchange your money fairly (and you could and can), it's nothing.

Contrast with, say, Venezuela, where there's a fake exchange rate propped up by the government that the average person cannot get, and you start seeing some actual monetary friction.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#77
post #18

I'm living in Italy at the moment, and I can watch the brain drain happening in real time. Every single university student I know here is looking to go to the UK or Germany when they graduate, almost without exception. I can't blame them at all, taxes are excessive and bureaucracy is excruciating here. Finding even a temporary job usually requires family connections, so the dumbest people with connections end up as m…

"dumbest people with connections end up as managers while the smartest get put into lower positions" That's the case everywhere, but the other side of the argument is that the managers are smart to use those connections for their careers.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#78
post #18

I'm living in Italy at the moment, and I can watch the brain drain happening in real time. Every single university student I know here is looking to go to the UK or Germany when they graduate, almost without exception. I can't blame them at all, taxes are excessive and bureaucracy is excruciating here. Finding even a temporary job usually requires family connections, so the dumbest people with connections end up as m…

A

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#79
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for us, finance has slightly above average comp packages especially the bonus but in London it’s possible to get to 100K as an engineer outside of it it begins to drop drastically some tech hubs can have high salaries but Manchester for example tops out at around 80K and that’s also pretty hard to get. Outside of the UK you might be lucky to get €50-60K even when working for US firms on average this includes Ger…

CoL? Seriously here in Norway getting over 100K € annually is becoming normal. If you are really talented, then you can even make 150k € annually. Freelancers make over 200k € annually. There is a huge shortage for developers these days, much thanks to "digital transformation" trend.

Have you looked at the exchange rate to euros? That's 1M NOK. I think maybe you meant $, which would be 800K NOK, which sounds correct for Oslo.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#80
post #34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there a lot of American expat software engineers in the UK? For most people, it would be a steep pay cut to move from the US to anywhere in the EU.

The thing with US salaries is that they're only higher in small circumstances, often what you'll find is someone is earning 100k USD and has an offer for 35-40k GBP will end up living a similar quality life. It sounds like it would be but that's not actually a pay cut. It comes from the fact that a lot of taxes are already given to the UK Govt, along with some strong protections for things like: private pensions, whi…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN