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Brain Drain Within the EU?

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Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#31

Post by dogma1138 »

pageald wrote: post #28
village-idiot wrote: post #3

Random thought: the UK has the advantage of speaking English. First, that makes it easier for them to pull in other Europeans, since english is commonly the second language of most other Europeans. Second they can also pull in American and Canadian expats much easier than anyone else in Europe. Germany is more interesting to me. German is not exactly the worlds most common first or second language. So this is more ev…

Are there a lot of American expat software engineers in the UK? For most people, it would be a steep pay cut to move from the US to anywhere in the EU.

There are some especially in the city finance and some engineering firms do pay six figures for non managerial engineering talent and while the pound has dropped it’s still possible to get a $130-150k base salary in the city and unlike the US you get a very good pension and benefits on top of that.

But if you compare the averages then yes you’ll be lucky breaking $70K in the EU.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#32

Post by ItsMe000001 »

rleigh wrote: post #30
arximboldi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Spaniard living in Germany... part of that very same problem. Anyways, "taxes and bureaucracy" is not the problem of the of the european south. In fact, taxes and bureaucracy are both way higher in Germany. The problems are more complex and historical. The EU economic crisis have been abused by right-wingers to argue that we have a too heavy social system. In fact, the demolition of the social system in the so…

Surely a major factor for problems in both Italy and Spain is the crippling effect of the Euro and EU regulation. If the Euro were scrapped, it could make the economies much more competitive. Just look at how the drop in the pound over the last two years boosted British industry and exports. That's not an option for countries shackled to the Euro.

So, the same problem that the poor(er) states in the US have. And yet, they seem to be content to stay within the union - so I think there may be a little more to it than a single variable? I'm open to the argument, it just seems a little... well, short. Especially in a reply to a comment that said "The problems are more complex" :-) (now it's simple after all? I doubt it)

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#33

Post by michaelt »

ItsMe000001 wrote: post #32
rleigh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely a major factor for problems in both Italy and Spain is the crippling effect of the Euro and EU regulation. If the Euro were scrapped, it could make the economies much more competitive. Just look at how the drop in the pound over the last two years boosted British industry and exports. That's not an option for countries shackled to the Euro.

So, the same problem that the poor(er) states in the US have. And yet, they seem to be content to stay within the union - so I think there may be a little more to it than a single variable? I'm open to the argument, it just seems a little... well, short. Especially in a reply to a comment that said "The problems are more complex" :-) (now it's simple after all? I doubt it)

America has accepted massive, permanent subsidies from high productivity states to low ones. It’s one country, after all.

Do the rich countries of the EU have the same appetite?

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#34

Post by dijit »

pageald wrote: post #28
village-idiot wrote: post #3

Random thought: the UK has the advantage of speaking English. First, that makes it easier for them to pull in other Europeans, since english is commonly the second language of most other Europeans. Second they can also pull in American and Canadian expats much easier than anyone else in Europe. Germany is more interesting to me. German is not exactly the worlds most common first or second language. So this is more ev…

Are there a lot of American expat software engineers in the UK? For most people, it would be a steep pay cut to move from the US to anywhere in the EU.

The thing with US salaries is that they're only higher in small circumstances, often what you'll find is someone is earning 100k USD and has an offer for 35-40k GBP will end up living a similar quality life. It sounds like it would be but that's not actually a pay cut. It comes from the fact that a lot of taxes are already given to the UK Govt, along with some strong protections for things like: private pensions, which doesn't happen in the US.

If you are very clever with applying taxes, and you don't pay into a private pension then you might be better off- but it's a good thought exercise to apply the costs of living differences and then work out what level of flexible income you have left, and then what buying power you have with that money.

The quality of life is generally comparable for jobs which technically pay 2x a UK salary in the USA.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#35

Post by iaskwhy »

rndgermandude wrote: post #19
village-idiot wrote: post #3

Random thought: the UK has the advantage of speaking English. First, that makes it easier for them to pull in other Europeans, since english is commonly the second language of most other Europeans. Second they can also pull in American and Canadian expats much easier than anyone else in Europe. Germany is more interesting to me. German is not exactly the worlds most common first or second language. So this is more ev…

German is the most common language in the EU after English, and the top first language even before English.

Sorry, it's not your fault but I found this funny because, of course German is the top first language in the EU, it's EU's most populous country, by far. Romanian is the 7th and Dutch the 8th and so on, pretty much every country has its own national language, with only a few exceptions.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#36

Post by meguest »

dogma1138 wrote: post #31
pageald wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there a lot of American expat software engineers in the UK? For most people, it would be a steep pay cut to move from the US to anywhere in the EU.

There are some especially in the city finance and some engineering firms do pay six figures for non managerial engineering talent and while the pound has dropped it’s still possible to get a $130-150k base salary in the city and unlike the US you get a very good pension and benefits on top of that. But if you compare the averages then yes you’ll be lucky breaking $70K in the EU.

I work for a US organisation in London, and not finance.

The average compensation for engineers is about £100,000 - some above and some below. This is on top of private medical and dental, generous pension contributions and a number of other benefits.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#37

Post by tobbe2064 »

I doubt the situation in Spain, Italy and France can compare to the one in Romania, Poland or any of the other eastern members where it's not just the scientist and engineers but also the doctors, nurses teachers etc etc that have much better prospects abroad

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#38

Post by gordaco »

tobbe2064 wrote: post #37

I doubt the situation in Spain, Italy and France can compare to the one in Romania, Poland or any of the other eastern members where it's not just the scientist and engineers but also the doctors, nurses teachers etc etc that have much better prospects abroad

Here in Spain is also quite common that nurses emigrate. Mainly to the UK, although that will surely change after Brexit.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#39

Post by ericd »

arximboldi wrote: post #27
ciguy wrote: post #18

I'm living in Italy at the moment, and I can watch the brain drain happening in real time. Every single university student I know here is looking to go to the UK or Germany when they graduate, almost without exception. I can't blame them at all, taxes are excessive and bureaucracy is excruciating here. Finding even a temporary job usually requires family connections, so the dumbest people with connections end up as m…

I am a Spaniard living in Germany... part of that very same problem. Anyways, "taxes and bureaucracy" is not the problem of the of the european south. In fact, taxes and bureaucracy are both way higher in Germany. The problems are more complex and historical. The EU economic crisis have been abused by right-wingers to argue that we have a too heavy social system. In fact, the demolition of the social system in the so…

From the outside, the bureaucracy certainly seems like a big part of the problem. I've idly thought about moving to one of those countries and starting a company there because they are so nice. But one of the big things that kills those ideas are the horror stories about the horrible bureacracy, with non-deterministic results despite the same inputs. Starting a business is hard enough without spending time dealing with that kind of BS. If they were able to get their houses in order and make running a business there simpler, I imagine that many people would be more willing to start them there. Until then, it's a nice place to vacation before returning somewhere else to get work done.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#40

Post by Kenji »

ItsMe000001 wrote: post #32
rleigh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely a major factor for problems in both Italy and Spain is the crippling effect of the Euro and EU regulation. If the Euro were scrapped, it could make the economies much more competitive. Just look at how the drop in the pound over the last two years boosted British industry and exports. That's not an option for countries shackled to the Euro.

So, the same problem that the poor(er) states in the US have. And yet, they seem to be content to stay within the union - so I think there may be a little more to it than a single variable? I'm open to the argument, it just seems a little... well, short. Especially in a reply to a comment that said "The problems are more complex" :-) (now it's simple after all? I doubt it)

> So, the same problem that the poor(er) states in the US have. And yet, they seem to be content to stay within the union - so I think there may be a little more to it than a single variable?

Are you seriously comparing the USA to the EU? Are you retarded? The USA is way more homogenous than Europe. The USA barely has any history, it's such a young country! European history goes back many thousands of years, you can't just force incompatible cultures together.

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