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A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

bbc.co.uk

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Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#101

Post by ikeyany »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #55

> “There is nothing here to begin to enable us to propose that on DMT, you literally transcend the laws of this universe and do actually go to another world,” he says. This is faulty thinking. An afterlife doesn’t presuppose a violation of natural laws, or a separate world. It just means you continue living in a different form. The only thing that would be required for that is a causal relationship (yet to be observe…

> If your mind is caused by the enduring structure and you experience its presence at death, that would be physically indistinguishable from you becoming that thing.

'You', 'experience', 'presence', and 'thing' are far too ill-defined for this to have meaning here.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#102

Post by Phenomenit »

ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

My theory is that it's not so much our brain creating a feeling of detachment and Contentment but rather the brain reverting back to its initial state.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#103

Post by samatman »

breatheoften wrote: post #13

I just associate DMT with nausea — and have no desire to repeat that pain. I did an ayuasca ceremony and only managed to drink one dose (you are encouraged to drink a lot more) — but my body felt so awful and all the evidence suggested the pretty obvious cause that there was no part of me that wanted to drink more and I felt completely fine with my decision to stop.

You probably know this but for the benefit of others: Monoamine oxidase inhibitors will make you feel pretty awful without paying close attention to diet for several days.

Even following a dieta won't necessarily keep you from having a physically uncomfortable time with ayahuasca! But it's virtually guaranteed if you do not.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#104

Post by shlant »

JohnBooty wrote: post #36

“My body just didn’t seem relevant anymore," says Iona. "And I felt like I arrived in some consciousness soup which seemed like a different realm to the one I ordinarily inhabit – even in dreams. It just seemed like everything was rotating and swirling and spiralling. It didn’t seem like there were normal space-time proportions going on.” I'm not exactly sure how close I came to dying, but I had the exact opposite ex…

what you're describing sounds exactly like an anxiety/panic attack (I dealt with them for years). You become hyper aware of your body and every sensation.

As another reply pointed out, this is one of the two main paths that intense experiences can go down. I have had psychedelic experiences that were just magnified panic attacks and similar to what you described. That is one path, and usually comes about from resisting the experience. The other path is relaxing into the void/ego death/ and going with the flow. This will normally result in what the quote describes.

This is why it is always concerning for me when people recommend psychedelics to anyone without knowing what kind of person they are/what state they are in. For trips, context and intention is EVERYTHING. If you are able to relax in the face of uncertainty and trust the experience, then you can have life changing experiences. If you are in a bad state of mind or if your life is in disarray, that will be magnified and you can also have life changing experiences, but not in a good way (I didn't face major anxiety before a bad mushroom trip).

Psychedelic experiences are built upon the psyche of the person experiencing them, so people can have exact opposite experiences taking the same dose of the same substance depending on their state of mind.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#105

Post by GuB-42 »

ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

You can think of it another way: why do we feel stressed in dangerous situation and pain when we are wounded?

Stress is us preparing for fight of flight, which is good for survival. Pain prevents us from further damaging our body. Stress overrides pain because your future well being doesn't matter if your die now.

Now, when you are near death, when you know there is nothing you can do, stress becomes useless, because you can't flee or fight back. So there is no downside to detachment and contentment.

Now the advantage may be that it may be the best response if, by chance, you survive. You don't overwork yourself, you are less likely to suffer mental breakdown afterwards, etc...

Keep in mind that everyone who experienced NDEs survived, obviously. So NDEs are not death experiences, more like survival experiences.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#106

Post by browsercoin »

tr8 wrote: post #96
browsercoin wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes I should clarify that after the experience, it felt like I had been in a sauna for the psyche. Basically, I had lingering sense of peace and wellness. The scariest shit I've seen while tripping was seeing the Eye of Providence. What's more creepy is that this is a common symbol people experienced. For example, I didn't know what the hell was a third eye until I saw it. It was unbelievable. It changed my life. It…

That's so weird. I experienced the same thing the first time I took mushrooms as a teenager. I had no idea what a trip was. There were a few notable things in the trip but one thing that stood out was the eye of providence. I can't for the life of me think why that appeared since it's not something I can really associate with anything in my life up to that point. I'm not a religious person and not very spiritual but…

that's whats fucked up about it. I am not religious at all. Yet, what I experienced was on a spiritual level with real changes.

it's crazy how common the themes are. did you hear extra-terrestrials? Like I literally heard a thought broadcasted from somewhere not on earth with the message "we aren't from earth but we are gonna help you out. clean your fucking room. move your computer to living room. get your shit together"

.... needless to say that was a big turning point

I haven't done mushrooms since and I'm kinda scared to experience the whole thing again.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#107

Post by browsercoin »

sparkie wrote: post #78
torgian wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really interested in trying it out, but I live in mainland China right now. Have no idea who I could even contact about getting some, even in places like Taiwan or Thailand.

Houby hunting, then PF Tek. Obviously, do lots of research. There aren't many deadly varieties by some of them look very similar to edible ones.

I wonder how many trial and error and generations of humans it took to realize which mushrooms were safe to eat. It's fascinating stuff.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#108

Post by lostmsu »

colordrops wrote: post #69
JohnBooty wrote: post #36

“My body just didn’t seem relevant anymore," says Iona. "And I felt like I arrived in some consciousness soup which seemed like a different realm to the one I ordinarily inhabit – even in dreams. It just seemed like everything was rotating and swirling and spiralling. It didn’t seem like there were normal space-time proportions going on.” I'm not exactly sure how close I came to dying, but I had the exact opposite ex…

I had a similar experience from a bad trip on acid. I felt like I had had a stroke while trying to leave my body, and got pulled hard back into the physical realm. All I could feel was my flesh, tongue, teeth, skin, breath, heartbeat, etc. Everything was physical machinery, and had lost all meaning and purpose. It was the most horrific experience I've ever went through by far.

Are you talking about the comment, or the article? Your description does not sound anything like what the comment says.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#109

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

TaupeRanger wrote: post #29
ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

Well we don't really understand the nature of "feelings", so the answers are going to be very speculative. But a better question might be: why do we feel contentment at all ? Why isn't it all just fear and rage all the time, with certain things lessening the fear and rage, like eating, pooping, and copulating? After all, if we avoid death and reproduce, the genes get passed on - evolution doesn't care about feelings.…

If you were always enraged that wouldn’t bode well for raising an infant to a self-sustaining age would it?

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#110

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

dpwm wrote: post #95
rangibaby wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a moment where your brain switches from “fight for your life” to “I’m fucked, don’t bother trying to save me”. The I experienced when I nearly drowned once. I was very calm and ready to go. You can see it in videos of how to spot a drowning person.

I am an anxious person. About a decade ago I was a passenger and at one point I was within about one second of almost certain contact with a vertical box section on a very slow moving vehicle. There was no way that my friend, and inexperienced driver, could brake in time. That one second was slow and I was unnervingly calm. Right at the last minute with probably less than 200ms to go, the driver very gently swerved a…

I was driving 60 the speed limit on a rainy day in southern Cali when a truck appeared out of nowhere, spinning into my path. I had a very brief ‘oh shit, this could be the end of me and my wife ‘ moment and then I calmly swerved to the left into oncoming lane that was empty at the time. The back of my car clipped the spinning vehicle at probably full speed perhaps slower If I slowed down (I can’t remember if I did) and we spun a complete rotation and a half to end up on the oppoite side of the road facing the opposite direction. My wife went into full panic mode while I was as calm as I’d ever been for reasons unknown to me. I realized later had I panicked and waited a second longer to take action, we’d likely both be dead now. I don’t know if t all happened too fast or if my mind decided to stay chill instead of panicking, but I’m glad i did what I did and that there were no cars in the other lane.
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