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A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

bbc.co.uk

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Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#61

Post by itronitron »

JohnBooty wrote: post #36

“My body just didn’t seem relevant anymore," says Iona. "And I felt like I arrived in some consciousness soup which seemed like a different realm to the one I ordinarily inhabit – even in dreams. It just seemed like everything was rotating and swirling and spiralling. It didn’t seem like there were normal space-time proportions going on.” I'm not exactly sure how close I came to dying, but I had the exact opposite ex…

I would say that you were very much alive, and in the moment :) ... reminds me of one of Laurie Anderson's monologues where she describes being carried down off a mountain by a fellow hiker because she was about to die (from altitude sickness I think), and the hiker told her stories the whole way down in order to give her something to focus on...

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#62

Post by arwhatever »

TaupeRanger wrote: post #29
ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

Well we don't really understand the nature of "feelings", so the answers are going to be very speculative. But a better question might be: why do we feel contentment at all ? Why isn't it all just fear and rage all the time, with certain things lessening the fear and rage, like eating, pooping, and copulating? After all, if we avoid death and reproduce, the genes get passed on - evolution doesn't care about feelings.…

Contentment could just be the way that your physiology signals that your needs are met, and that there is no current need to expend energy.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#63

Post by pymai »

ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

I have a vague recollection of someone suggesting small bits of DMT might be released while we sleep and that our dreams are like snack low key trips.

Well dreams are a fairly beneficial things to have especially if you have some epiphany or figure out the solution to a problem you're having.

The near death thing might just be your brain dumping that DMT out of your pineal gland all at once either when your body is shutting down from natural causes or when you are in some kind of traumatic accident.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#64

Post by jnurmine »

ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

I'm reaching, but since family units stuck together to hunt and for protection, and children were likely near their parents when death came, so perhaps it is a mechanism to avoid potentially destroying/harming (directly or indirectly) any offspring in a final flash of agony-fueled irrational violent rage.

The idea is, in other words, that those who somehow went amok near death perhaps reduced their number of offspring, or damaged the family unit (e.g. destroyed their shelters or food), therefore hindering those genes from spreading, therefore the selection pressure to remove this behaviour.

How do primates die?

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#65

Post by Chris_Chambers »

browsercoin wrote: post #56
mirimir wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that can be a frightening state. And yet, it was my favorite part, during the peak of the peak. To some degree, the rest of the trip was just something to be endured. Although I eventually learned to go dancing or bike riding or whatever. The absolute worst combination is marijuana on the tail of an LSD peak. Your short term memory drops to about 100 msec. I spent a few hours, decades ago, reminding a friend wh…

yes I should clarify that after the experience, it felt like I had been in a sauna for the psyche. Basically, I had lingering sense of peace and wellness. The scariest shit I've seen while tripping was seeing the Eye of Providence. What's more creepy is that this is a common symbol people experienced. For example, I didn't know what the hell was a third eye until I saw it. It was unbelievable. It changed my life. It…

Do you consider yourself to be successful overall?

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#66

Post by malux85 »

bariswheel wrote: post #60

On the other hand, 5-Meo-DMT (5-Methoxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine), comes in the form of an organic lab-produced extract, or the Bufo Alvarius venom, takes it to a completely different level of non-duality and complete and utter shattering of your ego (temporarily of course, for about 20 minutes). Someone named Albert Most discovered this bizarre compound a few decades back by smoking the venom from the glands of a Sono…

> Smoking venom from the glands of a Sonoran Desert Toad somewhere in New Mexico

I don’t know why but I just found this hilariously funny. Suddenly my life seems very mundane.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#67

Post by torgian »

browsercoin wrote: post #56
mirimir wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that can be a frightening state. And yet, it was my favorite part, during the peak of the peak. To some degree, the rest of the trip was just something to be endured. Although I eventually learned to go dancing or bike riding or whatever. The absolute worst combination is marijuana on the tail of an LSD peak. Your short term memory drops to about 100 msec. I spent a few hours, decades ago, reminding a friend wh…

yes I should clarify that after the experience, it felt like I had been in a sauna for the psyche. Basically, I had lingering sense of peace and wellness. The scariest shit I've seen while tripping was seeing the Eye of Providence. What's more creepy is that this is a common symbol people experienced. For example, I didn't know what the hell was a third eye until I saw it. It was unbelievable. It changed my life. It…

I'm really interested in trying it out, but I live in mainland China right now. Have no idea who I could even contact about getting some, even in places like Taiwan or Thailand.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#68

Post by TangoTrotFox »

ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

We can go the other way and this feeling of detachment and contentment might be what we evolved away from, but as our systems and cognitive functioning deteriorate we return to this state.

For instance take pain. People view pain as negative but it's of course a great positive from an evolutionary point of view. Not everything (or even everybody) experiences pain, but those that do are going to be vastly more likely to succeed in life than those that don't. Your reaction to recoil from pain is not because the interaction itself is painful but because you have evolved instincts that tell you that what you're feeling is likely detrimental to your health and the situation needs to be resolved instantly, on a subconscious, level.

As your pain receptors shut down it would ostensibly feel pleasant, but in reality it would just be one of the most important, and useful, evolutionary tools we have turning off.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#69

Post by colordrops »

JohnBooty wrote: post #36

“My body just didn’t seem relevant anymore," says Iona. "And I felt like I arrived in some consciousness soup which seemed like a different realm to the one I ordinarily inhabit – even in dreams. It just seemed like everything was rotating and swirling and spiralling. It didn’t seem like there were normal space-time proportions going on.” I'm not exactly sure how close I came to dying, but I had the exact opposite ex…

I had a similar experience from a bad trip on acid. I felt like I had had a stroke while trying to leave my body, and got pulled hard back into the physical realm. All I could feel was my flesh, tongue, teeth, skin, breath, heartbeat, etc. Everything was physical machinery, and had lost all meaning and purpose. It was the most horrific experience I've ever went through by far.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#70

Post by spraak »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #55

> “There is nothing here to begin to enable us to propose that on DMT, you literally transcend the laws of this universe and do actually go to another world,” he says. This is faulty thinking. An afterlife doesn’t presuppose a violation of natural laws, or a separate world. It just means you continue living in a different form. The only thing that would be required for that is a causal relationship (yet to be observe…

Thanks for sharing that, it really helped me unlock some mental pathways for me.
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