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Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#291

Post by mcny »

kerng wrote: post #282
mcny wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it is often difficult to decide where incompetence ends and where malicious begins. Microsoft Edge or at least EdgeHTML has a stated goal of being 100% compatible with Google Chrome. As you might guess, it isn't even close. Why? There are far too many competent people at Microsoft to say "never attribute to malice what can be described by incompetence". This isn't the kind of incompetence at Equifax.

Its sad that one has to be 100% compatible with Chrome. Is this something that someone at Microsoft really said? one should have to be compatible with the standards. If that statement is true, then it supports the claim of Google's dominance- which is unhealthy for the browser market, and users.

Maybe I didn't capture the wording perfectly. Maybe I reported what I heard and not what they said?

> any Edge-WebKit differences are bugs that we’re interested in fixing

context:

> We recommend that web developers avoid UA sniffing as much as possible; modern web platform features are nearly all detectable in easy ways. Over the past year, we’ve seen some UA-sniffing sites that have been updated to detect Microsoft Edge… only to provide it with a legacy IE11 code path. This is not the best approach, as Microsoft Edge matches ‘WebKit’ behaviors, not IE11 behaviors (any Edge-WebKit differences are bugs that we’re interested in fixing). In our experience Microsoft Edge runs best on the ‘WebKit’ code paths in these sites. Also, with the internet becoming available on a wider variety of devices, please assume unknown browsers are good – please don’t limit your site to working only on a small set of current known browsers. If you do this, your site will almost certainly break in the future.

Personally, I think operations infrastructure should take a a more hands-off approach and let people use whatever web browsers they want and focus on educating users on why and how rather than on what. However, it is not practical for a variety of reasons. I had a chance to chat with a Chrome team member. He assured me that if you are an IT department and want to deploy Chrome in your enterprise, the Chrome team is committed to stand behind you. You can start at https://enterprise.google.com/chrome/chrome-browser/ If you have custom home-grown applications that require a legacy browser, you can centrally manage lists. In practice, this means that users will just need to open Google Chrome. If they go to some address that requires a legacy browser, Chrome will automatically kick you to the legacy browser. When someone continues on the legacy browser, you can kick them back to Google Chrome and have them continue there. I think this is the better path forward especially considering that Windows 7 will end of life in 2020. While I love Mozilla Firefox, I think Chrome is your only choice when it comes to Enterprise desktop.

For web developers like me, Edge has such a small market share that it makes no sense to test for Edge. From what I understand above, I shouldn't have to test for Microsoft Edge. It shouldn't have any of the legacy stuff from MSIE. That being said, threats of mono culture aside, I think it is best for any corporation to move their web browser to Google Chrome. Your people will be more productive on Google Chrome because it is the browser they know and love.

https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/06/17/building-a-mo...

If you're reading this, hello from Google Cloud Summit New York!

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#292

Post by krn »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #290
krn wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft is in the same business as Google. Microsoft and Google may have competing products, but they are in completely different businesses. Microsoft is in the business of software, Google is in the business of data. That's why there's a public Bing Search API[1], but there's no public Google Search API. [1] https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/cognitive-service...

> Microsoft and Google may have competing products, but they are in completely different businesses. Microsoft is in the business of software, Google is in the business of data. In what way are Windows and Edge "software" but Android and Chrome are not? > That's why there's a public Bing Search API[1], but there's no public Google Search API. The company that is operating a data service is the one not in the data bus…

> In what way are Windows and Edge "software" but Android and Chrome are not?

> The company that is operating a data service is the one not in the data business?

A company in the software business charges for the usage of its software (Windows, Bing API). A company in the data business gives the software for free, and monetizes the data it collects about its users (Android, Google).

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#293

Post by r00fus »

snaky wrote: post #281
jhayward wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has less than 10% of the market share in China.

And it shrinks. > With only seven million iPhones sold in China during the second quarter of 2018, Apple's market share in the country dropped by 12.5 percent year on year to 6.7 percent, according to a report by the International Data Corporation (IDC) And you can imagine why is that so. > Xiaomi pokes fun at Apple with phone, laptop, fitness tracker, and Bluetooth earphones bundles that cost the same as the new iPh…

Mocking Apple? Your example sounds like a good advertising campaign by a competitor not some "pervasive cultural shift".

It's like saying that the EU hated MS when Bill Gates got a pie in the face a few years ago.

Plotting a curve with a single data point...

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#294

Post by DenisM »

quickben wrote: post #194
DenisM wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for me it doesn't. 69 on Mac OS.

Where are you two located? I have noticed Google discriminates per location. For example creating a Gmail account from Canada isn't possible without a phone number, whereas creating one from Europe is.

Seattle

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#295

Post by AndrewKemendo »

JoshMnem wrote: post #34

> "The Dragonfly memo reveals that a prototype of the censored search engine was being developed as an app for both Android and iOS devices, and would force users to sign in so they could use the service. The memo confirms, as The Intercept first reported last week, that users’ searches would be associated with their personal phone number. The memo adds that Chinese users’ movements would also be stored, along with t…

Support for Firefox is more important than ever.

Agreed.

I had always been a FF user, but switched to chrome about a year ago because it was faster. The latest version of Chrome pushed me back to Firefox, as it's WAY slower and not particularly friendly to tracking, even with Ghostery/uBlock etc... installed

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#296

Post by fauigerzigerk »

IBM wrote: post #289
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wrong. Apple merely said "no backdoors will be created into any of our systems". And no backdoors into any of Apple's systems are necessary because a government-owned company will be operating iCloud, including the keystore. Apple's terms of service make this very clear: "You understand and agree that Apple and GCBD will have access to all data that you store on this service" https://www.apple.com/legal/inter…

Apple told Reuters that is not what's happening: >Apple says the joint venture does not mean that China has any kind of “backdoor” into user data and that Apple alone – not its Chinese partner – will control the encryption keys. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

So Apple is saying one thing to the media and another thing in their legally binding customer agreement.

Someone should ask Apple which one it is, because these statements seem completely irreconcilable to me.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#297

Post by bduerst »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #277
IBM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No, the Chinese government now owns the servers with the key storage. They now have access to all the keys and user data. >If the Chinese government is accessing all the user data because they requested Apple to put the user keys on their now-state-owned servers, then why does it matter if Apple controls the keys? You're still splitting hairs. Apple said literally the opposite of this to Reuters and in this statemen…

You are wrong. Apple merely said "no backdoors will be created into any of our systems". And no backdoors into any of Apple's systems are necessary because a government-owned company will be operating iCloud, including the keystore. Apple's terms of service make this very clear: "You understand and agree that Apple and GCBD will have access to all data that you store on this service" https://www.apple.com/legal/inter…

Yep - saying there are "no backdoors" isn't the same as giving front door access.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#298

Post by bobdole123456 »

krn wrote: post #273
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's because Microsoft's incentives are more aligned with ours. Better, more user-centric software == better outcomes for users, more Microsoft usage/profits. Microsoft is in the same business as Google. Search, Bing. Gmail, Outlook.com. GCP, Azure. They even operate an ad network. Google has some bad incentives but Microsoft has all the same ones. If not, why isn't there a single button for "never send any of my…

> Microsoft is in the same business as Google. Microsoft and Google may have competing products, but they are in completely different businesses. Microsoft is in the business of software, Google is in the business of data. That's why there's a public Bing Search API[1], but there's no public Google Search API. [1] https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/cognitive-service...

What now?

https://developers.google.com/custom-search/json-api/v1/usin...

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#299

Post by krn »

bobdole123456 wrote: post #298
krn wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft is in the same business as Google. Microsoft and Google may have competing products, but they are in completely different businesses. Microsoft is in the business of software, Google is in the business of data. That's why there's a public Bing Search API[1], but there's no public Google Search API. [1] https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/cognitive-service...

What now? https://developers.google.com/custom-search/json-api/v1/usin...

It's Google's Custom Search API, designed to increase the usage of Google, not to replace it. Bing Search API allows creating new search engines that don't send user data back to Microsoft. That's why DuckDuckGo is powered by Bing, not Google.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#300

Post by chrischen »

dustinmoorenet wrote: post #44
chrischen wrote: post #35

Why is there no such outrage over google closely tacking search users in America?

Because Google doesn't come to your house, take you in for questioning and then pressuring you into confessing that you did something wrong which disturbed civil order. Stories about what happens in China: https://chinachange.org/

You're absolutely right. We take people from other countries and put them in a facility on Cuba and deny them their rights. We treat our own citizens better, and enforce these same standards on China because we must Make America Great Again.

Here's Last Week Tonight's recent episode focusing on forced confessions in the US: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET_b78GSBUs

HBO's miniseries "The Night Of" is a great look into the inner workings of the US justice system, and how it's designed to get people to take plea deals (aka forced confession): https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2016/07/10/the-night-...

The fact that you bring up these essentially sovereign nation internal issues as if they are fundamental transgressions against human rights (which maybe they are) while ignoring rights violations under your own nose, shows that your perspective on these issues is highly underdeveloped.

China has many problems, and I'm sure forced confessions are probably a larger problem over there than in the US, but for the most part their citizens don't need armchair observers to fight for their rights. They don't need proselytizers, evangelists, or colonists either.

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